General Night photography tips

thisispants · Jan 24, 2009

I'm going to New York soon and I'm seeing it as a perfect oppotunity to get some great night shots.

But...I've never done any proper shooting at night.

So what are some tips? I know a longer shutter speed is usally neccesary...particularly as I want to use a slow film. So obviously a tripod is also the go.

Generally what is the standard apeture setting? I can imagine a high apeture of say f4 could be used as it lets more light in....but would that mess with the large depth of field you need. I really have no idea.

Any hints and tips would be very much appreciated. I did a quick search and couldnt find anything.

Thanks in advance. This website is incredible.

thisispants · Jan 24, 2009

is a slow film going to get thr best results?

jd callow · Jan 24, 2009

Night shots can be done anyway you like, but you need to be aware of a few things.

You'll be shooting under manmade light
Colour correction (if that is what you want requires more neg exposure)
Tungsten film is almost always a good choice for urban street at night
You'll be using a tripod so film speed shouldn't be an issue (choose a film that meets your desired look 160nc and portra 100T have long scale and tend to add an earthiness to urban shots, Reala has a long scale and brings out the punch of the neon, faster films are often more contrasty and yet not always as good for colour saturation) Fuji films tend to b-up sooner than Kodak, but return better plastic tones (opposed to earth tones).
Use the aperture/DOF that the scene calls for
Stay within the reciprocity of the film and bracket for over exposure
Concrete roads and sidewalks will get most of the illumination and yet are not the most exciting aspects of a scene
Most scenes will exceed the latitude of the film so pick and choose what it is you want rendered (empty blacks are generally better than blown highlights) Metering can be tricky and if you have a spot feature on your camera meter the areas you want rendered and make sure that the top and bottom are within 5 stops of each other.
Fill the frame

If you want to play it safe use kodak 160nc or vc, rate it at 80 and you shouldn't need to worry about reciprocity failure until you are over ~1 min. Most scenes in NY will be under 15sec at f/8 using these films rated at 80.

Test at home in your own city before you go. I prefer slow film to fast for most everything, but...

Nigel · Jan 24, 2009

I have done a bit of night photography. My suggestions are as follows:

1. Use a tripod,
2. Provia 100F gives long exposures before needing correction for reciprocity failure,
3. A Nikon FE has an incredible light meter that works very well in low light,
4. Meter for the the brightest object you would like to keep detail in then close up a couple of stops,
5. Bracket,
6. Take a flashlight,
7. Take notes,
8. Take a lot of pictures and only show the good ones

panastasia · Jan 24, 2009

Choose a film type and experiment before your trip to NY. Make sure you record the exposure for each frame so you can find the results that please you. I wouldn't choose a slow film, with medium-fast film you can get hand held shots in a brightly lit city. Good luck.

thisispants · Jan 24, 2009

Thanks for the tips! Just another question.... I have a newly bought off ebay olympus om10. I'm still getting to know it. I have a manual adapter and it seems to only go to 1 second....is anyone familiar with these cameras? Do I have to go to bulb setting to get to 15 seconds or if I used auto (apeture priority with these cameras) will it just do as many seconds as it needs.

If I do go to bulb I'd need a cable release wouldn't i...

panastasia · Jan 24, 2009

You'll need a tripod, or monopod, and cable release for any shutter speed slower than 1/30 sec. (1/60 for sharp photos), and yes, you'll need to use bulb for 1 sec. or longer exposure.

Konical · Jan 24, 2009

Good Evening,

Since you'll be needing a tripod anyway, there's no necessity to use fast film. I agree with the suggestion above to do some experimenting ahead of time. Do you have an urban area nearby where you might do some shooting under similar conditions?

I much prefer a film like TMX, which has limited reciprocity problems; Acros is reported to be even better in that respect, but I have little experience with it. With TMX, I find that somewhere between 45 seconds and 2 minutes at f11-16 usually works out well for city skylines and city street scenes. I don't attempt to meter, but just rely on my previous results in similar situations. Night exposures don't usually have to be "perfect" to get very satisfactory images. Using a soft-working developer such as Technidol helps, if you can find it.

Konical

thisispants · Jan 24, 2009

If you use a fast film....like 800 for instance....what would the shutter speed be?

jd callow · Jan 25, 2009

At no point can you be assured that what worked before in a given night scene will work in the next unless you are shooting the exact same scene under the exact same conditions. Your eyes adjust to the light conditions making one scene look much like the last and yet there can be many stops difference between the two.

You will need to meter.

If you are going to shoot transparencies/slides/chromes you need to have your metering down pat, and then it will help to bracket in thirds. This can make for a very expensive adventure In addition the colour of the scene can hopelessly skew the results. Even though you see it as being 'normal' the film may come out horribly orange, green, cyan or a mix of the three. Your brain 'colour balances' the light making it nearly impossible for you to know what colour the film is seeing.

If you are going to shoot with B&W film you need to have already worked out an exposure index (the speed you rate the film) and developer combination. B&W films can be closer to slides in there exposure tolerance and often suffer from reciprocity failure at relatively fast shutter speeds (as little as 1 or 2 seconds). In addition it is helpful to have worked out compensating times for B&W film so that you can more readily fit the scene to the film (let alone fitting the film to the paper). TMAX has robust reciprocity characteristics, but if you haven't used it then it is very likely to disappoint.

Colour negative film is the most capable and most forgiving of the three films types. It is more forgiving of overexposure or any exposure errors, can capture more shadow and highlight detail out of the box, and is the easiest to correct for insanely coloured man made lights.

You need to decide what kind of film you are going to use. Get a few rolls and practice on the streets of your town. Practice metering, focusing (using a flash light to focus on is great -- put the flash light in the scene and focus on it) and bracketing. Take notes.

You'll need:
To have a good idea of how to meter properly
How to use your camera's exposure controls

Do you know what a stop is in relation to exposure time? Do you know what the reciprocal relationship and reciprocity failure are? Are there any terms in this thread that are confusing you?

As you may suspect, I think you should shoot colour negative film. It is easier, you are far more likely to get good results and you can test and build your night shooting chops in two evenings and a walmart.

telkwa · Jan 25, 2009

Compared to the Pentax LX, the Nikon FE's light meter isn't very good.
The FE will work EV 1 to 18
The LX will work EV -6 to 20 (-6 is 16minutes at f/4 for 100 speed film).

It's truly remarkable. Does anyone know what other cameras can handle such dim light?

jd callow · Jan 25, 2009

Your camera will be able to operate in auto well beyond 1 sec. Test it. Buy extra batteries too.

thisispants · Jan 25, 2009

jd callow...you're a genius! Thanks for the advice. The only metering I know how to do is whatever the om10 does. I'm pretty sure that's not spot metering either..... I think the answer to your question is no, I dont know how to meter properly. I'm pretty down with stops and exposure times, I have no idea what reciprocity failure is....but I'll be googling it right now.

I'm keen on B&W....but I'm not going to touch it again until I can afford to develop my own film....after the o/s trip. So yeah...i'll be sticking to colour negative for the night stuff.

Sjixxxy · Jan 25, 2009

Konical said:
I much prefer a film like TMX, which has limited reciprocity problems; Acros is reported to be even better in that respect, but I have little experience with it.

Acros is amazing. For urban night shooting, reciprocity isn't even on my mind when I use it. I have a cache of it in 4x5 that I don't even touch unless I know I'm going to be shooting in dim light.

Konical · Jan 25, 2009

Good Morning,

I understand that 4 x 5 Acros can be acquired in standard loose sheets instead of just in expensive Quickloads. I definitely need to investigate that, but, for the moment, TMX continues to serve me well, and very predictably, in night exposure situations.

Konical

Sjixxxy · Jan 25, 2009

Konical said:
Good Morning,

I understand that 4 x 5 Acros can be acquired in standard loose sheets instead of just in expensive Quickloads. I definitely need to investigate that, but, for the moment, TMX continues to serve me well, and very predictably, in night exposure situations.

Konical

http://www.badgergraphic.com/ is the only place I've found to have it in non-quickload. I stocked up well on it last year.

jd callow · Jan 25, 2009

Here is a link to the OM-10 manual
http://www.vieilalbum.com/documents_fichiers/Manuel Olympus OM-10.pdf

Page 29 begins the coverage of exposure compensation (you'll want aperture priority)

It may be that someone with experience with this camera will chime in.

Sirius Glass · Jan 26, 2009

For exposures see Jiffy Night Calculator:
http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=6711
www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Cameras/JiffyCalc.pdf
www.stacken.kth.se/~maxz/files/jiffy.ps

I have had good luck with these since it was first published.

Steve

2F/2F · Jan 26, 2009

I would start by using films that have good reciprocity maintenance during long exposures. First on the list for this feature are tungsten films. Next is Fuji Provia. Fuji b/w neg. film supposedly is excellent in this area as well, though I can't say from personal experience. T-grained films are better than conventional-grain films in this area.

The rest is figured out pretty quickly by trial and error.

R/D · Jan 27, 2009

As being a rookie in MF I plan on doing quite a bit of low light shooting as well. There is some really great info in this thread, thanks to all who contributed.

rudolf · Feb 1, 2009

thisispants, I'd recommend following:
0. Know your lightmeter (and let this be a good lightmeter - I have excellent Luna SBC);
1. Get some time to know the film you plan to use - reciprocity failure can be a real pain;
2. When you start wandering around some nice night scene, take your time - I was sometimes in a situation, when I didn't really look around and started exposure, then I saw something better to record, but long exposure did not allow me to (I didn't want to stop ongoing exposure);
3. Don't be afraid of really long exposures - plan your DOF and let the exposure be whatever your lightmeters says
I exposed some frames 1,5h long, and I quite like it.

Poisson Du Jour · Feb 1, 2009

thisispants, there is a lot of attention being given to reciprocity failure in this thread, so here's an explanation.

Reciprocity Failure (more correctly, an effect) is purely a change in the film's characteristics outside its target exposure range i.e. exposures significantly shorter or longer than what the film is designed for will result in a loss (or gain) of contrast, loss of effective film speed and colour shifts (the longer the exposure, the more pronounced the colour shift). Time (shutter speed) and aperture (intensity) share a reciprical arrangement: if one is altered, the other must be compensatedfor the exposure to remain constant. But at long exposures, reciprocity occurs and the film's response is changed. Many photographers exploit this effect (particularly with Velvia and Provia)

Having done heaps of night (astro) photography, I'd recommend you 'give the film enough rope'. Provia 100F mentioned in this thread runs purplish at long exposures, and with a carefully chosen night scene (night skies, seascapes), this is an enhancement, not a fault. I'm also saying use transparency film rather than print film, and that also implies knowing your exposure and having some experience. I never meter for astro (or general night) scenes (they're all done on bulb, 45 minutes to 16 hours on Provia 100F), but in the bright lights of NYC, there'll be all sorts of conflicting sources of lights of all intensity, not the least being traffic moving toward you that can throw readings off. Perhaps do some 'test runs' near home and get the film developed and determine how well you did. Build up experience and plan the event. The thought just crossed my mind that an aerial shot (from a building, not a plane) looking over the night skyline would be good. Mmm!

jd callow · Feb 1, 2009

You need to meter urban night shots!

Poisson Du Jour · Feb 1, 2009

NO, you don't meter for astrophotography. What are you trying to prove by wanting to doing so!?

If one is going to photograph the concrete jungle, meter as you please, but why bother? Why the restriction??

For the night, all I use is a watch. And 27 years' experience.

Who explicitly said meter from car headlights!?

rudolf · Feb 1, 2009

I'm not very familiar with astrophoto, but I think metering was irreplaceable in these scenes:
A Dead Link Removed or Dead Link Removed, or Dead Link Removed.
It's just convenient. Of course, experience replaces lightmeter during well-known light (full moon, no moon, etc...) but sometimes it's faster and better to use a dedicated and helpful tool.

General Night photography tips

thisispants

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2F/2F

R/D

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General Night photography tips

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