Steeper film curve, AKA plus or push development.1. Developing for times longer than recommended, results in _________________.
Flatter film curve, AKA minus or pull development.2. Developing for less time than recommend, results in ________________.
More agitation, higher temperature, more concentrated developing mix, more developing time, or any combination thereof.3. Increased contrast in a negative is achieved by _______________.
Opposite of last answer.4. Decreased contrast in a negative is achieved by _______________.
Using faster film.5. You can increase apparent grain by _______________.
Using slower film.6. You can decrease apparent grain by ___________________.
Not change.7. My (properly exposed) negatives were really dense. Next time I should ________ my developing time.
See last question.8. My (properly exposed) negatives were really thin. Next time I should __________ my developing time.
More development.9. Too vigorous agitation can/will result in _________.
Opposite of last answer. (Seeing a trend here?10. Too whimpy agitation can/will result in _________.
See vigorous above.11. Agitation at intervals more frequently than recommended would result in ___________.
See wimpy above.12. Agitation at intervals less frequently than recommended would result in ____________.
The alleged answers to #1 could be 100 percent wrong. For instance, if you badly underexpose, overdeveloping might be a very good thing. In today's world everyone wants instant answers. Nobody wants to learn their craft. What a horrible idea indeed. If we wanted to keep everything a secret we would give you more fake answers that would really screw up your negs. And we would NEVER suggest that you actually crack a book and read up on the subject.
I guess this is why analog photography is a dying art. Getting help from folks is like pulling teeth.
If I was just starting out developing, and wanted to know why my negatives came out overly grainy, or very dense, or too thin, I would hope I could get an educated answer/guess that would lead me in a direction that would help. Sure, reading books would give a person the answers, but seriously, in this day and age with the internet at our beck and call, how many under 30's are going to read a technical manual about developing film, when all they want to know is what they may have done wrong, and go from there.
I guess this is why analog photography is a dying art. Getting help from folks is like pulling teeth.
If I was just starting out developing, and wanted to know why my negatives came out overly grainy, or very dense, or too thin, I would hope I could get an educated answer/guess that would lead me in a direction that would help. Sure, reading books would give a person the answers, but seriously, in this day and age with the internet at our beck and call, how many under 30's are going to read a technical manual about developing film, when all they want to know is what they may have done wrong, and go from there.
Here's an example of what I was hoping for, but obviously won't get:
1. Developing for times longer than recommended, results in denser negatives, and increase in grain, and a loss of shadow detail. (Among other things)
But I guess all those with experience want to keep those things secret so the fine art of film developing dies when they do.
Well, I've had a few cocktails tonight (Being a "regular" at the dive bar means your drinks are pretty, umm, "dense". But they're "well-agitated"). But here goes...
This may be the most "my panties are all wadded up" "my butt hurts" post I've seen on APUG.
You want some sort of holy grail of developing info - you got a very wide range of responses. Because THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER except the answers you find to how you shoot, and how you want your negs and your prints to look.
I posted earlier on this thread to get a copy of a specific book and look into their testing methodology. Others posted... well, all kinds of stuff. And your response is that we're all hiding our vast knowledge from you.
"Getting help from us is like pulling teeth"?? We are all here, helping each other. I have all my teeth and I posted what I thought would help. But... LEARN HOW TO TEST YOUR FILM and find the ISO that works for the developer you want to work with. Scroll up a few threads and consider the book that I suggested, which would not only up your game for exposure and developing, but for printing as well.
I'm not some WWII veteran "get off my lawn" kinda old fart. Hell, I play guitar in a punk band and my alter-ego is a British punk rocker. I sing harmonies on "I HAVE A CRAMP IN MY PANCREAS" for christ's sake. And you're making me feel like "kids today - what pussies!!!"
WE CAN'T ANSWER ALL OF THIS STUFF - there are a million opinions about "what agitation does". And only a small percentage will fit what you want your film to look like, under the conditions you shoot and your gear and your film and your developer and what looks like a kickass final print to you. This shit is magic, it's personal, it's ghost-in-the-machine. Think about that - GHOST IN THE MACHINE - chemistry and mechanical shutters and emulsions and everyone does something radically different with THE SAME DAMNED STUFF. That's why this isn't the "What's the highest megapixel digital camera" forum. And it's whay there are no super-easy answers. And yet there are a couple paragraphs in "way Beyond Monochrome" that will boost your negative quality with a minute's thought.
After decades of shooting commercial color product photography that YOU HAVE PROBABLY SEEN in billboards and catalogs and ads, this forum has helped me becomes ten times the B&W shooter I ever thought I could be. Don't go dissing these awesome, good people (OK, there may be a jerk or two around here, god love 'em). Get your damn humble on and realize... this is school, and there are some good teachers here - but in this digital age, you gotta teach yourself, too.
Sincerely, Dikkie Smythe.
Lead guitarist for Sammee Skumn
(The epic punk band from Pudley-on-Thames, England)(But we moved to Thames-on-Pudley when the punk scene exploded there)
[video=youtube;4w5uy2nd_6Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w5uy2nd_6Q[/video]
the questions were posed with the assumption of correct in-camera exposure.
I think Matt understands what I'm trying to get across, and he presented it in a better format. I just thought a troubleshooting list for developing could be helpful. I guess I was wrong.
Yeah, my panties have been wadded up, but it's because I'm asking for simple answers to questions that I firmly believe everyone with some experience developing B&W can give a reasonable answer to. No, I'm not expecting a prophecy on B&W developing, but let me ask it this way:
You have always developed film A, with developer B, for X length of time, with Y agitations for Z period of time, and have been happy with the results.
Now, what will happen if one of the variables (X, Y, or Z) (film and developer are the constants) is altered in some way? If A, B, Y, and Z are left the way you've always done it, but change X, what changes could result? Yes, there is (or can be) more then one answer, but having those answer can help someone figure out a cause for a problem they may be having.
In other words, let's say a roll you developed showed more grain then you usually get, or that is normal/expected with that film and developer. Some variable must have changed to cause the increase in grain. Well, it's the same film we used last week, and it's the same type of developer, so what is the most like culprit(s) that could have caused the increase in grain? I have a feeling that if I called up my old high school photo teacher, he would say something to the effect of "most typically, increased grain is caused by 'variable 1' or 'variable 2'.". Then I would at least have an idea of where the screw up happened.
Doesn't even have to be a screw up. Could just be 'I want more/less contrast/grain/etc. from this roll, what do I alter?'
I think Matt understands what I'm trying to get across, and he presented it in a better format. I just thought a troubleshooting list for developing could be helpful. I guess I was wrong.
1. Developing for times longer than recommended, results in _________________.
Decreasing development generally decreases the "contrast" of a negative. Again, we're talking contrast gradient here, not overall contrast, which is dependent as well on the subject brightness range/range of exposure on the negative.2. Developing for less time than recommend, results in ________________.
Here we're getting into "fuzzy-concept territory." If by "contrast" you mean "contrast gradient," then the answer is, "by increasing the development." However, with the same development I can capture various contrast ranges by photographing scenes with different subject brightness ranges... I think you meant the former, but really, your question is not clear.3. Increased contrast in a negative is achieved by _______________.
The opposite of the above answer. The same fuzzy-concept problem applies.4. Decreased contrast in a negative is achieved by _______________.
A false premise underlies this question: I assume you want us to say that more development results in more grain. This simply is not true and has been proven not to be true. Furthermore, graininess is highly subjective. Finally, graininess is mostly a characteristic of the film, and related to film speed. So, one real answer is: If you want more grain, shoot a faster film and enlarge it more. Still that is an oversimplification. Some developers soften the grain by dissolving and redepositing silver (D-76 straight), others do not.5. You can increase apparent grain by _______________.
Of course, this has the same problem as the question above. Larger film, less enlargement, using a silver-solvent developer instead of a non-solvent developer will all reduce the appearance of grain. Changing development times with the same developer will really not do much in this department.6. You can decrease apparent grain by ___________________.
Again, you are presuming a scenario. Yes, IF your negatives were well-exposed and they consistently end up with too-high a contrast gradient, you may be overdeveloping. If it's just a one-time thing, then maybe it was a subject with a high luminance range that is the culprit. Generally speaking, however, too-dense negs are more often the result of poor (over-)exposure.7. My (properly exposed) negatives were really dense. Next time I should ________ my developing time.
And, the opposite of the above: If your negatives are consistently too flat, but you have shadow detail, then you need to increase development time.8. My (properly exposed) negatives were really thin. Next time I should __________ my developing time.
Increasing agitation will increase the rate of development. This is not in itself a bad thing. Finding an agitation scheme that gives you evenly-developed negatives is the key. Too-vigorous agitation can result in surge marks and areas of increased density where the turbulence is greater. If you have these, you should reduce the vigor of your agitation.9. Too vigorous agitation can/will result in _________.
Less agitation = slower rate of development. The danger with less-vigorous agitation is uneven development (especially bromide drag), which can be remedied by increasing agitation frequency and/or vigor. Again, finding the right combination is often not easy.10. Too wimpy agitation can/will result in _________.
...a faster rate of development. If you adjust time accordingly, then there would be no problem assuming you had even development. Constant agitation in rotary processors and trays is the norm.11. Agitation at intervals more frequently than recommended would result in ___________.
...reduced agitation, which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. There are many who swear by stand or semi-stand development with minimal agitation. Again, time has to be appropriate and finding a scheme that results in even development is not always easy.12. Agitation at intervals less frequently than recommended would result in ____________.
As an example, just varying the lighting conditions in the scene can affect the apparent graininess of the prints. So if you specify "diffused" lighting, you eliminate that variable from the analysis.
Generally speaking, however, too-dense negs are more often the result of poor (over-)exposure.
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