Gelatin Manufacturers for Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, Kentmere, etc?

mothman · Jul 21, 2015

Hi,

Hope this is posted in the right forum. I'm looking for information about the sources of gelatin used in various silver gelatin papers and films. Thus far it appears Rousselot is the major player for Kodak, having bought out Eastman Gelatin Corp. but that's all I have found at this point.

I'm emailing the major players separately to hopefully get the information I'm in search of, but posting here as well on the off chance someone may know and will get back to me faster.

Any assistance or points in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!

fdonadio · Jul 21, 2015

I wish you the best of luck.

I tried contacting Rousselot here in Brazil and they never got back to me.

If you're in Europe, maybe you can get photo-grade gelatin from them. Around here, no way.

Regards,
Flavio

Sent with Tapatalk. Please, forgive autocorrect and my fat fingers.

Ian Grant · Jul 21, 2015

There's a company in the Welsh Valleys that supplies a lot of Photographic gelatin. I posted in a thread about it a few years ago it was near where one of my nieces went to University.

It's in Pontypridd or Treforest and was supplying Fuji.

Ian

mothman · Jul 21, 2015

I'm in the states at the moment but will be moving to the UK in the fall. Artcraft Chemicals sells photo grade gelatin: http://www.artcraftchemicals.com/pr...mistry/a-m/gelatin-photo-250-bloom-part-1153/

And thank you, hopefully someone will get back to me! I've sent emails to Ilford and Fuji thus far to the UK and Tokyo offices.

mothman · Jul 21, 2015

Thanks for the lead! Google time.

Edit: Found them if anyone else may be interested: http://www.pbgelatins.com/company/worldwide-presence/pb-gelatins-united-kingdom/

Edit 2: List of major gelatin manufacturers who appear to produce "technical" gelatin:

http://www.pbgelatins.com/company/worldwide-presence/pb-gelatins-united-kingdom/
http://www.indiagelatine.com/index.htm
http://www.gelita.com/
http://www.nitta-gelatin.co.jp/english/
http://www.italgelatine.com/index.php
http://www.narmadagelatines.com/
Dead Link Removed

pdeeh · Jul 21, 2015

Are you hoping to buy direct from them?
Unless you want it by the tonne, you may be disappointed ...

mothman · Jul 21, 2015

No I have questions unrelated to actual photographic production. Ultimately I'm after the data describing the relationship of the silver gelatin industry to that of environmental consumption (e.g. where do the cows come from, how much land is being used, how much water, etc.).

So for example how much water does it take to produce a single roll of 35mm film.

Prof_Pixel · Jul 21, 2015

checkout: http://gelatine.org/en.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin

benveniste · Jul 21, 2015

I'll resist the obvious joke about "where do cows come from?"

At least for Eastman Gelatin, the bones came from slaughterhouses as a by-product of meat production. They arrive (or arrived) in railroad cars -- something like 80 million pounds of bones a year. Here's a 1999 WSJ article on the operation, but you may have to go through Google to dodge the paywall:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB916612340706719000

How much of the land and water used in cattle production one allocates to the bones is a political question. But gelatin making is water intensive. The plant has its own wells, rather than drawing on the already overtaxed Ipswich river. A local story from 2007 stated that they had pumping capacity of 5 million gallons per day, but they had extra capacity and had offered to supply water for a city-owned golf-course.

Prof_Pixel · Jul 21, 2015

Interesting article in the WSJ

Photo Engineer · Jul 22, 2015

As noted above, gelatin is a byproduct of the meat industry and thus has little additional impact on the environment.

Suppliers include Gelita (a division of Kind and Knox) and Rousselot which bought out Eastman Gelatin.

There are several companies which supply what they term Photo Grade Gelatin, but which is a far cry from what is acceptable. I have found that several varieties are active and cause slow fog in emulsions.

This thread should be in the Emulsion Making and Coating Forum.

PE

AgX · Jul 22, 2015

Of the slaughtered animals the precursors of gelatin are of much lesser value than the meat. Thus gelatin is not decisive in building up a live stock.

pdeeh · Jul 22, 2015

Prof_Pixel said:
Interesting article in the WSJ

indeed!
"Why can't you just use rat tails?"

JW PHOTO · Jul 22, 2015

pdeeh said:
indeed!
"Why can't you just use rat tails?"

Not enough rats where I live, but you could setup a big plant near Washington D.C.! So, what's the cheapest and best "photo" grade and where do you buy it? I don't need to buy a whole cow or a handful of rats. John W

mothman · Jul 22, 2015

Here is the WSJ article if anyone else is interested: http://www.mad-cow.org/jan99_mid_news3.html

I get that gelatin is a byproduct, but I also read somewhere (will have to look back in my notes to get the specific page) Eastman had its own farms for raising cattle specifically for gelatin, because the cows' diet had a direct impact on the quality of the gelatin or something of that nature. Thus I would like to know the extent of the truth of that statement and if it is true for other manufacturers as well.

dwross · Jul 22, 2015

Did. No longer do. Purifying gelatin and then adding back into the emulsion appropriate sensitizers eliminated the need to control the amount of mustard (among other things) a cow ate.

It takes water to make the gelatin, but (in my opinion) that is a better thing for the environment than completely wasting (i.e. disposal issues) most of a cow.

mothman · Jul 22, 2015

Do you have any idea where I might find more information about the farm(s)? I am not coming up with much info from Google. Haven't heard back from Kodak yet either.

dwross · Jul 22, 2015

The two best sources I know of (and they are excellent) are Gelatin in Photography, by S.E. Sheppard, 1923. Sheppard was the person responsible for discovering the role of mustard in a cow's diet. And, The Theory of Photographic Process, by C.E. Kenneth Mees, 1942. And only the 1942 addition. By the 2nd edition (1954), gelatin was no longer a major topic of photographic research and discussion and the history part of the gelatin sections was greatly reduced.

Photo Engineer · Jul 22, 2015

I get my photograde gelatin from the Photographers Formulary. It is Kodak (Rousselot) gelatin and is very inert. This is 250 Bloom cow (bone) gelatin. I don't recommend pig gelatin.

The Formulary will sell in just about any quantity.

PE

JW PHOTO · Jul 22, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
I get my photograde gelatin from the Photographers Formulary. It is Kodak (Rousselot) gelatin and is very inert. This is 250 Bloom cow (bone) gelatin. I don't recommend pig gelatin.

The Formulary will sell in just about any quantity.

PE

Thanks PE! This winter I'd like to start playing around in the emulsion tub and see if I want to venture further. I will probably try some glass plates and maybe coat some paper if the plates go well.

Photo Engineer · Jul 22, 2015

Mark Osterman's emulsion is very nice for plates. It is blue sensitive and about ISO 2. But very very smooth working and trouble free.

We are also working on a new version that is faster and ortho sensitized.

mothman · Jul 26, 2015

Received a response from Artcraft: Dead Link Removed

Anyone know anything about this company?

Photo Engineer · Jul 26, 2015

If it is oxidized, certified photo grade (not food grade) then you can probably use it, but I have some that is certified photo grade that fogs emulsions slowly while in the melted state.

PE

Stephen Prunier · Aug 23, 2015

benveniste said:
I'll resist the obvious joke about "where do cows come from?"

At least for Eastman Gelatin, the bones came from slaughterhouses as a by-product of meat production. They arrive (or arrived) in railroad cars -- something like 80 million pounds of bones a year. Here's a 1999 WSJ article on the operation, but you may have to go through Google to dodge the paywall:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB916612340706719000

How much of the land and water used in cattle production one allocates to the bones is a political question. But gelatin making is water intensive. The plant has its own wells, rather than drawing on the already overtaxed Ipswich river. A local story from 2007 stated that they had pumping capacity of 5 million gallons per day, but they had extra capacity and had offered to supply water for a city-owned golf-course.

That plant is in the next town from me. Peabody, MA is called "the tanner city" because of all the tanneries that were there years ago. Some parts of the city would have the distinct smell! I still drive by the plant and remember what it use to be like.

Gelatin Manufacturers for Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, Kentmere, etc?

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