GAF (color materials)

[CMoore]

I remember, circa 1980, they were pretty damn Big.
Henry Fonda was doing commercials for them, and they supplanted KODAK as the "Official Film" of Disneyland.
But their history is kind of confusing. Who or what was GAF.? Did they actually make film and cameras.? Did they rebrand AGFA/European Films and Japanese cameras.?
They seem to have a Long History going back to I G Farben.
Did you guys use GAF Paper/Film.?
Thank You

 

[MattKing]

Who or what was GAF.? Did they actually make film and cameras.?

General Aniline and Film.
Wikipedia has a good listing for them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAF_Materials_Corporation

There were Sawyers and Viewmaster products in the Simpson Sears stores I worked at in the late 1970s and early 1980s - they were GAF brands.
I think we may have had some GAF film as well, but I'm not sure.

 

[Ian Grant]

They were formerly Agfa Ansco, owned by Agfa in Germany before the US Government seized the company after the US late entry into WWII.

They did rebadge Japanese cameras from about the 1960's, sell some German Agfa cameras in the US but made their own films and papers, which were never brilliant.

Ian

 

[AgX]

GAF also took over Viewmaster in 1966, seemingly it became the success story of their consumer department.
The Viewmaster projectors I came across so far are type 111. The packaging looks very American, but they were all made by GAF in Belgium!
(I still have to find out where and whether it was an own or a toll production.)

 

[randyB]

In the early 70's the very first color slide film that I home processed was made by GAF, the chemical kit was very cheap. Unfortunately the color wasn't stable and the grain was huge. GAF also made B&W film. some was actually pretty good. It was far cheaper than Kodak. They also sold darkroom chemicals. I miss those days.

 

[Ian Grant]

In the early 70's the very first color slide film that I home processed was made by GAF, the chemical kit was very cheap. Unfortunately the color wasn't stable and the grain was huge. GAF also made B&W film. some was actually pretty good. It was far cheaper than Kodak. They also sold darkroom chemicals. I miss those days.

GAF sold colour films under the Ansco name here in the U.K. (1960s & 70s), they relaunched them as GAF. The only film that seemed popular was I think a 640 ASA slide film favoured for a soft ethereal grainy look. They only sold colour films in the U.K. Market no B&W or chemistry.

Ian

 

[BainDarret]

I never got around to shooting this roll.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I used their slide film. I have not seen them in years.

 

[AgX]

Did they rebrand AGFA/European Films and Japanese cameras.?

After they stopped manufacturing photographic materials in 1977 they licenced the name Ansco Color to a new entity which used that for rebranding.

 

[faberryman]

I haven't heard the name in decades. Besides the Viewmaster, I seem to remember them marketing budget films. I think they also rebranded their film for KMart and Sears. I never used any. If you dig deep enough with Google, you can probably find a link to a review of one of the films in Modern or Popular Photography sometime in the 1960s or 1970s.

 

[foc]

http://www.fotointern.ch/wp-uploads/2009/07/filme_koshofer_kl.jpg

Here is a list of films that used The Agfa process, in both colour negative and transparency.

AFAIK Anscochrome was the same process as Agfachrome and their colour negative was based on the Agfa CN17/CNS but usually 1 generation behind.
Ansco/Gaf did change from the Agfa negative process to Kodak C22 in the early 1970's but then Kodak introduced C41 in 1972 and I think that was the last straw for them.

I am sure Ansco/Gaf changed from Agfachrome process to Ektachrome E4 at some stage, it may have been when they introduced the 500ASA transparency film. I shot one roll of 500ASA film as a teenager and all I remember was the golfball size grain. I had to leave it into a photo shop to have it processed.
I had shot a lot of the Agfa CT18 around the same time as it came with a processed paid envelope and the turnaround time was a week (it had an Irish PO Box number although it was probable shipped it UK for the processing)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ansco/GAF did not use the Agfa process for color. They had their own unique process which (for example) used benzyl amine instead of benzyl alcohol. They did not use a C-22 process. In 1962 they offered their first neg-pos print material, but before that only sold a pos-pos print material called Printon. In 1965, they introduced the latest reversal film, Super Anscochrome. Up until the mid '60s, they were government run, but were released to become an independent company after the takeover during the war.

Pre-process, Ansco positive films did not show great keeping, but afterwards, the photos seemed to have quite good image stability.

They finally released a C22 and Ektaprint family of film and paper that was quite good, just as Kodak introduced C41 and Ektaprint 3. Ansco/GAF sued Kodak along with Berkey and Pavelle due to this. They won. Interestingly, the GAF products went through the new Kodak processes just fine.

This lawsuit did not benefit any of the companies involved. For example, it stopped R&D on a line of new print materials using CD6 and went forward with minor changes to EP3.

PE

 

[CMoore]

Wow...amazing info.
Kind of makes you wonder what the "Back-Story" was in the whole Kodak/Disney/GAF change.
I can see Disney changing from Coca-Cola to Pepsi. They were (arguably) equals at the time.
But from reading several of the posts here, it would seem GAF was Nowhere Near the quality of Kodak. Imagine (if you were a little knowledgeable) dropping into the photo store at Disney, and being faced with GAF. Must have been disappointing for a lot of people. Or imagine being on a rare, or once in a lifetime vacation, loading the family camera with GAF, and then getting lousy results a few weeks after you get home and have the film developed.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[AgX]

Here is a list of films that used The Agfa process, in both colour negative and transparency.

Ansco/GAF did not use the Agfa process for color.

This is bassed on a misunderstanding. These listings are not based on the process as in processing, but instead of the coupler-system.
Thus Agfacolor=long chain, hydrophilic couplers versus Ektachrome=short chain, oil embedded couplers.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ummm, Agfacolor is long chain hydrophylic couplers vs EKTACRHOME long chain HYDROPHOBIC (oil embedded) couplers.

Both had C6 or longer chains of carbon atoms, but Agfa couplers ended in SO3H. Ansco/GAF couplers did until about the mid '60s. During the switch, GAF (Ansco) used Kodak as a "consultant" but we could not reveal C41 or Ektaprint 3.

PE

 

[nworth]

Ansco made a full line of film products for both amateur/professional photography and industrial photographic uses. They made amateur motion picture film, but they were never very prominent in that area. I don't know of any professional motion picture films by them. They had a limited variety of films, but those were quite popular. They also made printing materials, most of which carried the same brand names as Agfa materials (Brovira, Cykora, etc.). I don't know if these were the same emulsions as the Agfa materials, but they were reasonably popular.

The Ansco color materials were not as popular as Kodak, but they had a strong and loyal following. During the 40s and 50s, color films were not very accurate, regardless of who they came from. Ansco color films were more muted than Kodak, which was nice for many uses. The films of the 40s and 50s were probably derived from the Agfa films of the 30s, which they somewhat resembled, but they were probably not the same. In the late 1950s Ansco caused quite a stir when it introduced an ASA 100 speed color film. The fastest thing Kodak could offer was ASA 32. The film was not great, but it did the job. Ansco color film was generally processed by independent labs. But Ansco encouraged amateurs to process both color film and print materials at home. Their process worked at 68 degrees F and was fairly tolerant. They offered 1 qt. kits to the amateur as well as larger kits to professional laboratories. I developed many rolls of Anscocolor in the bathroom during the late 50s. It was easy, and the process worked well. Ansco also published the formulas, which mostly used common chemicals except for the color developing agent, Dicolamine. Ansco's Printon reversal color print material was probably the first such material offered to the general public. The stuff from the late 40s and early 50s was a white, opaque film. Later on, they made a paper based color print material. Ansco also sold color printing filters.

 

[darkroommike]

GAF started as ANSCO started by ANthony SCOville inventer of celluloid flexible roll film (Kodak film was originally on a paper substrate). Kodak infringed on the Anthony Scoville patent (not the first time and not the last time Kodak did this), eventually lost and had to pay royalties to ANSCO. ANSCO was bought by GAF then bought by Agfa, later. during WW2 the US Government "divorced" ANSCO from AGFA and GAF supported the war effort. Teh two were reunited after WW2, I recall the military and NASA using a lot of GAF products in the early days but the Govt. went to Kodak products early on, perhaps because the big yellow father had a larger industrial base(?). The more recent history with the GAF logo I remember Fonda had a very specific way he said GAF with a big emphasis on the "GEE".

 

[Photo Engineer]

ANSCO films and Printon were used at Cape Canaveral in the early days of the missile programs there. The film shots were remarkably good, but the Printon prints were pretty bad. I made some personally and they still look pretty good.

PE

 

[foc]

Ansco/GAF did not use the Agfa process for color. They had their own unique process which (for example) used benzyl amine instead of benzyl alcohol. They did not use a C-22 process. In 1962 they offered their first neg-pos print material, but before that only sold a pos-pos print material called Printon. In 1965, they introduced the latest reversal film, Super Anscochrome. Up until the mid '60s, they were government run, but were released to become an independent company after the takeover during the war.

Pre-process, Ansco positive films did not show great keeping, but afterwards, the photos seemed to have quite good image stability.

They finally released a C22 and Ektaprint family of film and paper that was quite good, just as Kodak introduced C41 and Ektaprint 3. Ansco/GAF sued Kodak along with Berkey and Pavelle due to this. They won. Interestingly, the GAF products went through the new Kodak processes just fine.

This lawsuit did not benefit any of the companies involved. For example, it stopped R&D on a line of new print materials using CD6 and went forward with minor changes to EP3.

PE

I am a little confused or maybe I misunderstood but I remember reading a post you had about Agfa where you mentioned that Ansco were one generation behind Agfa in their colour system. I have the link to the post here.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I find the Agfa / Ansco history fascinating and yet there is very little resource info on line.

 

[railwayman3]

The musical "Brigadoon" (MGM, 1954) was made in "Color Magic by Ansco".

The film is actually better than the trailer might suggest.
But a version of a Scotland which never existed outside a Hollywood studio.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I am a little confused or maybe I misunderstood but I remember reading a post you had about Agfa where you mentioned that Ansco were one generation behind Agfa in their colour system. I have the link to the post here.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I find the Agfa / Ansco history fascinating and yet there is very little resource info on line.

Read the next paragraph in that reference. GAF (Ansco) began to diverge in their products and the process became unique to Ansco products. As I said above, they used Benzyl Amine instead of Benzyl Alcohol in their color developer to avoid Kodak patents. Agfa never used an organic "booster" in their CDs and they finally joined EK in using the C41 process. GAF did not. They entered with a C22 product just as the C41 products were introduced, which led to the lawsuit.

PE

 

[Kevin P.]

Kodak film had the famous yellow box, Fuji the green box, Agfa the orange box, Konica the blue box, 3M the black or multicolor tan box (sometimes with a rainbow stripe). The one color box that has been sorely missed over the last 40 years has been the red box, the GAF film.

(I know this thread is 2 years old, but I had to add my experiences and comment regarding GAF.)

As far as films, GAF was probably EK's biggest competitor back in the 1950's through mid 70's. GAF films were definitely made by GAF and GAF films had their own look and characteristics, just as Kodak's, Fuji's or Agfa's did.

Where many Kodak films of the era (such as K64 or Kodacolor II) tended to favor magenta-ish skin tones, GAF typically had tannish skin tones. GAF 64 was a very pleasant all-around film with no color casts; soft natural greens, accurate blue sky, pleasant reds and yellows.

During its lifetime, GAF 500 was the world's fastest color film. Introduced mid-1967, it lasted ten years until GAF went out of the consumer photo business in June 1977. Modern Photography said in its April 1976 film test "despite coarse grain and little detail it appears amazingly sharp due to its high contrast". Blue skies tended to have a touch of violet, skin tones were tannish, probably because GAF 500's yellows were rendered well but reds were a bit dull. Greens tended toward brownish or a bit dull in it's two fast (200 and 500) films. IF GAF 500 had any slight color cast it was towards red. GAF 500 also had a very unusual characteristic when shot under the typical cool white fluorescent, it showed no (or very little) greenish cast at all, whites showed little or no greenish cast, skin tones tended toward an orangy tone.

I never shot much GAF 200 but it was warmer toned than Kodak's competing High Speed Ektachrome (ASA 160, which was Kodak's fastest color film at the time.) Skin tones were a bit towards brownish. It was not as contrasty side as GAF 500 was.

GAF slide films all resisted the tendency to go bluish in the shade, probably more than any other film of the time. K64 was very magenata/bluish in open shade, High Speed Ektachrome was bluish, Ektachrome-X a bit less. GAF films were much more neutral.

GAF was the first to make a Kodak process compatible color negative film (GAF Color Print) released late summer 1969. Believe it or not, they first released it in 126 format only as 126 was where all the film sales were for color print film. A year later in 1970 they came out with the 35mm. format. GAF Color Print was so good that my July 1970 Modern Photo said it would take an emulsion expert to tell GAF and Kodacolor-X apart; they exposed alike, developed alike, looked alike and they printed alike. With all the C-41 compatible films we had in the last 40+ years, it is hard to imagine a time when there were no Kodak-process compatible color negative films. Not until mid-1969 and GAF did it.

While it's true that Kodak introduced Kodacolor II in mid-1972, this is misleading without all the facts. Kodacolor II was only available in 110 size size for nearly 2 years. It wasn't until April 1974 that Modern Photo was able to get some 35mm Kodacolor II to test against Kodacolor-X. The results were not as one sided as you might assume. No improvement in actual grain, VERY slight increase in sharpness in a 20x print. In the 3x5 prints Kodacolor II had pinker, truer skin tones and less muddy, lighter colors. However when Modern had 11x custom enlargements made, they liked results from the older Kodacolor-X better. They also said that, in the past they had seen better, less muddy colors from Kodacolor-X than the comparison showed.

I shot several dozen rolls of GAF Color Print back in the mid 1970's. It had more tannish skin tones (which I liked) verses Kodacolor II which tended pinkish, especially skin tones. The magenta cast also affected greens (such as grass).

GAF did introduce a C-41 Color neg. film, my best guess would be about January 1977, I have rolls of 110, 126 and 135 GAF C-41 process color print film, they all have expiration dates of January to June of 1979. And yes, at the very end they did get rid of that ugly orchid and red color scheme they used on the older C-22 GAF Color Print (going for a solid red box) but it was too late for most of us to see.

 

[railwayman3]

I can just recall that, here in the UK and back in the 1970's, there were a few "GAF" shops which sold not only the films, but also copying machines, graphic supplies and a variety of artists' materials.....sort of a complete range of imaging supplies.

I don't think that GAF colour films were particularly well know, other than perhaps with enthusiasts, Kodak were probably the most used, particularly by casual shooters, with Ilford for B&W and Agfa as an option for colour slides, Fuji was, so far as I remember, very much a newcomer at that time.

 

[foc]

GAF did introduce a C-41 Color neg. film, my best guess would be about January 1977

Did they make their own C41 film or was it re-labelled from another manufacturer.
Do you have any of the 35mm negs with the edge markings?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I saw samples of these various films in 1962 including color paper. I still have one of the prints.

In general, the colors struck people as being rather drab except the paper. It was quite good.

Their own process was quite smelly. It used Benzy Amine as an enhancing agent in the CD. The smell would knock your head off. They needed to change to a Kodak compatible range of color products to compete.

They had problems designing the negative films and contracted Kodak to help the, which we did. KRL researchers worked with GAF researchers to solve several of their problems. This was in about 1967. I saw some of the work.

PE