FYI Kodak : Directors rally to save film factory

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 5, 2014

MattKing said:
Here is something older and a bit more heavy duty (the camera, not the model): http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRICE-CUT-o...ional-film-cameras-ZEISS-PRIMES-/261084733044

If EK/KA marketed their film the way this guy markets his film cameras, threads like this one would not even exist...

Ken

Dr Croubie · Aug 5, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
If EK/KA marketed their film the way this guy markets his film cameras, threads like this one would not even exist...

Ken

Who needs bikini girls? That set of Kilfitt 400/600/800/1200mm primes will sell itself...

AgX · Aug 5, 2014

aRolleiBrujo said:
so how do we get into this sort of filming? do we use any vintage film camera? is there a sort of 1900's hollywood quality film cameras still available that accepts modern film?

You can use vintage cameras, cameras only a few years old, or cameras fresh from the manufacturer.

You can buy new 16mm and 35mm cameras. A new Super-8 camera is in the making.

MattKing · Aug 5, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
If EK/KA marketed their film the way this guy markets his film cameras, threads like this one would not even exist...

Ken

My father worked his last quarter century or so at Kodak Canada in the marketing division (customer service department).

Some how, I think that this would have made him uncomfortable .

Photo Engineer · Aug 5, 2014

Demand is down by about 80% + or so. This is regardless of marketing. Kodak is the only supplier, but the moviemakers want digital for the most part.

PE

aRolleiBrujo · Aug 5, 2014

AgX said:
You can use vintage cameras, cameras only a few years old, or cameras fresh from the manufacturer.

You can buy new 16mm and 35mm cameras. A new Super-8 camera is in the making.

i wonder, hmm, this sounds fun, and cool! I would not mind if it produced sub-par images, by today's HD filled world, just to use the film is question! I wonder what it would be like! I don't know a thing about camera film, let alone movie film! I wonder how affordable and at the same time, image quality adherence could be had? I must research! i'm thinking along the lions of, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari type motion picture quality! Preferably Zeiss lenses of yore!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrg73BUxJLI

Dr Croubie · Aug 6, 2014

aRolleiBrujo said:
I would not mind if it produced sub-par images, by today's HD filled world, just to use the film is question!

If it's decent film (and movie stock generally is), you can still scan it to way better than HD. I scan everything to 3200dpi (ie, that's near enough to 3000x4500, 13MP for a regular 35mm frame) and can barely see the grain on Velvia/Ektar/Portra, though it is noticable on faster films like the Superia 800 I shoot occasionally.
What's HD, 1080x1920 = 2MP? 4k is 3840x2160, 8MP or so? Shooting film and then scanning (at least on the finer/slower films) will still give you better "resolution" (for whatever that word is worth) than digitally.
Of course, that's a few still images a day, not hundreds of thousands of frames, so quality and MP will probably go down when you start doing film by the 1000', but it's possible if you've got the time and cash.
A fully analogue workflow including projecting is even better, of course, as long as all of your lenses along the way are up to scratch. Give me grain over digital-compression 'blocks' any day.

The biggest barrier to film is the cost, anyone can hire a digital camera and shoot everything for a few hundred a day then edit on their $2k home PC; film requires a lot of cost for negs, developing, then either internegs and prints or scanning to a digital workflow. But if you want to give it a try, go ahead: the equipment is dirt cheap these days, there's a lot of film up for sale (there was a url link here which no longer exists) too.

PKM-25 · Aug 6, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Demand is down by about 80% + or so. This is regardless of marketing. Kodak is the only supplier, but the moviemakers want digital for the most part.

But please if you have the full day it would take to peruse them, read through Ratty Mouse's far away in a science lab in China speculation rants to see if *any* of it has any merit?

Wordness....

Xmas · Aug 6, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Demand is down by about 80% + or so. This is regardless of marketing. Kodak is the only supplier, but the moviemakers want digital for the most part.

PE

Kodaks accounts for 1st qtr 2014 look grim for film.

aRolleiBrujo · Aug 6, 2014

PKM-25 said:
But please if you have the full day it would take to peruse them, read through Ratty Mouse's far away in a science lab in China speculation rants to see if *any* of it has any merit?

Wordness....

wouldn't passionate plea suffice, versus, rant? We all should remain as civil in discourse as possible, but, we should all remain neutral as film users, and supporters,as it seems to be a dying medium enough, as it is! hell, I got kicked out of fredmiranda as a.rodriguezpix based on crap given to me, by my own thread! all i asked was if anyone could design a freaking tattoo gratis, and all hell opinions busted loose! and some a**hole in Canada with 2k feedbacks balked to fred whom then confronted me, and accused me, which, i defended, therefore leading to my being BANNED! peace guys, peace! we are all wrong when we are right, and we are all right when we are wrong!

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 6, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Demand is down by about 80% + or so. This is regardless of marketing. Kodak is the only supplier...

Go Ferrania.

Ken

Xmas · Aug 6, 2014

PKM-25 said:
But please if you have the full day it would take to peruse them, read through Ratty Mouse's far away in a science lab in China speculation rants to see if *any* of it has any merit?

Wordness....

A chum who is an artist could not understand why Kodak cancelled Plusx.
I tried to help but could not.

http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/Kodak...Builds_in_Strategic_Technology_Businesses.htm

2nd Qtr should be out soon

Dr Croubie · Aug 6, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Go Ferrania.

Ken

Go indeed.

I just had the thought, is Kodak really the last remaining Cinefilm manufacturer of any size? Fuji quit a year or two ago, so there are no more 'big ones'. Agfaphoto, Orwo, Smena, Lucky, any of them do or did Cine?
Kodak quitting might be the best thing to happen to Ferrania, there will suddenly be a lot of demand (by Ferrania standards) for Cine film once the K supply is gone, add in a few desperate directors and there'll be more than enough VC to finance the R&D and do a small run every now and then.

Or might Ilford even get into the game? If cine film is to be a low-production niche within 5 years, and even if digital replaces colour completely, I'm sure Tarantino would love to use some B+W shots inamongst the rest (weren't there some B+W cut scenes in Kill Bill? Edit: yes, DoubleX 5222 no less). Just take some regular FP4, strengthen the base, and coat on some Remjet, it can't be much harder than that? (Cue PE and or Simon saying that it is a lot harder than that).

Xmas · Aug 6, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
The biggest barrier to film is the cost, anyone can hire a digital camera and shoot everything for a few hundred a day then edit on their $2k home PC; film requires a lot of cost for negs, developing, then either internegs and prints or scanning to a digital workflow. But if you want to give it a try, go ahead: the equipment is dirt cheap these days, there's a lot of film up for sale (there was a url link here which no longer exists) too.

The trade offs arnt that clear cut.

The post processing needs a real PC >$ - film post cheaper!

Film is expensive up front recans and short ends normal - stealing maybe?

If you wanna shoot a movie you need a lotta preparation.

May be best to hire modern Arri to get what you want in can 1st take. Legs ie tripod heavy. Power pack heavy.

You need to be experienced for film, spotty virgins can do digital...

ECN or 5222 is nice film.

AgX · Aug 6, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Demand is down by about 80% + or so. This is regardless of marketing. Kodak is the only supplier, but the moviemakers want digital for the most part.

PE

The original article mixes up camera and projecting film.
Agfa too offers projecting film.

Xmas · Aug 6, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
Go indeed.

I just had the thought, is Kodak really the last remaining Cinefilm manufacturer of any size? Fuji quit a year or two ago, so there are no more 'big ones'. Agfaphoto, Orwo, Smena, Lucky, any of them do or did Cine?
Kodak quitting might be the best thing to happen to Ferrania, there will suddenly be a lot of demand (by Ferrania standards) for Cine film once the K supply is gone, add in a few desperate directors and there'll be more than enough VC to finance the R&D and do a small run every now and then.

Or might Ilford even get into the game? If cine film is to be a low-production niche within 5 years, and even if digital replaces colour completely, I'm sure Tarantino would love to use some B+W shots inamongst the rest (weren't there some B+W cut scenes in Kill Bill? Edit: yes, DoubleX 5222 no less). Just take some regular FP4, strengthen the base, and coat on some Remjet, it can't be much harder than that? (Cue PE and or Simon saying that it is a lot harder than that).

Orwo still do 100 & 400 mono 400&1000 feet Bell and Howell perforations, lots of stills people use it
Ilford used to do HP5+ cine up to 2002 they probably still have the perforation machine
Ilford do XP2+ a C41 mono a few more layers and a filter and it would be colour C41... >>expensive to prototype
5222 does not have REMJET only ECN films and kchrome had REMJET
Some if the Indian manufacturers still do cine I think
But there is no commercial market long term, no profit imperative. The market is still shrinking.

FYI Kodak : Directors rally to save film factory

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