Future of medium format film

Johannah Sentenn · Oct 9, 2009

I'm sure this topic has been tackled somewhere on APUG, but I can't find it. I've returned to my Rollei and Hasselblad after years away from the camera, and I don't want to go digital. In fact, I want to add 4x5 and 8x10 to my portrait work. But before I go too deep into this world and invest money into equipment that I may not be able to use in a number of years, where can I find solid information about what is happening to the availability of medium and large format film? I was crushed to find out that I could not use Polaroid 55 with a 4x5 anymore.

Sirius Glass · Oct 9, 2009

MF, 120 film, will hopefully be around for a long time. 4x5 and 8x10 will be around for a long time too. One problem is that the film choices in each size may decrease, but that does not seem to be the case in general for now. Kodak Ultracolor 400 was discontinued in 120, but Ektar 100 was added. And 120 film is supported with the Porta family and its recent improvement.

I see that Tri-X 400 was discontinued in 4x5, but there are TMAX 400 films available. Frankly, I wish that Tri-X 400 was still available. Tri-X is not TMAX and TMAX is not Tri-X.

Instead of worrying about the future, just enjoy what we have. For 120, consider a camera like the Hasselblad 500 series which can take a digital back in the future. [Hasselblad is not the only one, I just know more about it.]

Steve

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

Hi Johannah, why worry about availability? It's available now, and we could use you on board! The more we sit around and worry about film availability and not use film the sooner its demise. So get out there, buy some film and shoot it!

PeteZ8 · Oct 9, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
I see that Tri-X 400 was discontinued in 4x5, but there are TMAX 400 films available. Frankly, I wish that Tri-X 400 was still available. Tri-X is not TMAX and TMAX is not Tri-X.

Steve

You mean Tri-X 320? I'm not sure they made a 400 in 4x5.

Did they cancel it completely or just certain box sizes? I thought I remembered there being some debate on if it was canceled or just certain counts, ie, they were only going to make them in 20 packs or something to that effect. Perhaps I'm thinking of Fuji film. Tough to keep up these days!

photomem · Oct 9, 2009

I hope film is around for a long time, because I am seriously considering selling my Nikon digital kit and going full bore with film. I have a Mamiya 645AF and for a simple 429.00 upgrade, it can be a AFD, then I am fine if the photographic apocalypse ever comes.

Johannah Sentenn · Oct 9, 2009

It's a practical issue for me--I'm trying to build a business and a name that will last the rest of my lifetime. And one of the major differentiating things about my work versus other photographers' work is that I shoot film, and larger film at that. I'm not up to date on the changes to come down the line re: film photography and I'm trying to get a clearer view on what lies ahead to help me make some strategic decisions re: equipment investment. oxoxxo

brian steinberger · Oct 9, 2009

I understand what you're saying, but honestly no one is going to be able to tell you how long 120 film will be around. In this forum we feel certain for years and years to come, but look at this forum (Analog Photographers User Group). We're all very optimistic. If you went over to other forums with mixes of digital and film users you might get "if it were up to me, it'd already be dead" responses.

Bottom line, no one knows. I'm enjoying using it now, but I certainly hope it's around the rest of my lifetime.

Cheryl Jacobs · Oct 9, 2009

Johannah,

Medium and large format film will be available in one form or another for years to come. When/if Tri-X is no longer available, something else will be. As a single-photographer business, you and I have the ability to turn on a dime and accommodate our market to our materials and such. There's no point stressing about what may or may not happen in the future. Market for what you have now, adjust as necessary.

- CJ

Christopher Walrath · Oct 9, 2009

I think one thing that we all need to bear in mind when it comes to future availability of film is that film is created by companies that participate in a consumer driven system. Put simply, if the product is demanded then it will be supplied. If you have a favorite film, get it from as local a supplier as you can. If we opt out for the chincy film (I was guilty of this this past year and will not do so again) then the top of the line film will take a hit and availability will suffer the consequences. However, as long as we, as a film photography community on the whole and as film photographers on an individual basis, support those companies producing film with our money, they will continue to provide us with our means to continue participating in our true love.

Keep buying film. Continue to encourage others to do so. Introduce a new generation to film. The more film bought, the more film made. Pure and simple.

Ian David · Oct 9, 2009

Christopher Walrath said:
Keep buying film. Continue to encourage others to do so. Introduce a new generation to film. The more film bought, the more film made. Pure and simple.

I even waste quite a lot of film just to help keep Ilford in business. Every bit helps

mgb74 · Oct 9, 2009

I would suggest that your differentiation is based not on using film per se, but the attendant quality that film still provides. You are willing to sacrifice convenience for quality. Some day digital may equal film and, when that happens, you (as Cheryl says) "adjust as necessary".

Christopher Walrath · Oct 9, 2009

Right-o.

flash26c · Oct 9, 2009

I think the fact that "The Great Yellow Father" Kodak's sales are 70+% digital says something. Kodachrome was only 1% of the remaining 30% so it went away. I am going to support companys that want our business and need our business to stay alive. Fuji looks like the best bet in color slide flim and HP5 is looking like a good replacement for Tri X.

PVia · Oct 9, 2009

Johannah Sentenn said:
I'm sure this topic has been tackled somewhere on APUG, but I can't find it. I've returned to my Rollei and Hasselblad after years away from the camera, and I don't want to go digital. In fact, I want to add 4x5 and 8x10 to my portrait work. But before I go too deep into this world and invest money into equipment that I may not be able to use in a number of years, where can I find solid information about what is happening to the availability of medium and large format film? I was crushed to find out that I could not use Polaroid 55 with a 4x5 anymore.

Stop worrying, just go out and shoot...you're not going to find solid info on anything, including digital, so just do it!

2F/2F · Oct 9, 2009

flash26c said:
I think the fact that "The Great Yellow Father" Kodak's sales are 70+% digital says something. Kodachrome was only 1% of the remaining 30% so it went away. I am going to support companys that want our business and need our business to stay alive. Fuji looks like the best bet in color slide flim and HP5 is looking like a good replacement for Tri X.

I feel as you do, and made a big switch to Ilford some time ago. However, recently, I have given up and realized that I cannot deny the beauty of Kodak's line of film products. I will purchase and shoot them as long as they are they. Most of all, there is NOTHING like Tri-X 400 or 320. I still love my HP5 and Delta 3200, but I use both Tri-Xs and T-Max 400 from Kodak. I also use their color neg films in medium and large format 9as well as Fuji's). I like Fujicolor better in low or foully-colored light, and Kodak's better with daylight or flash. I feel that the Fuji films color correct much better in the enlarger.

Christopher Walrath · Oct 9, 2009

My favorites are TMY and HC110. As long as Kodak produces them, I will continue to use them. And as CJ says, "adjust as necessary".

tkamiya · Oct 9, 2009

I've been told and I believe it myself, that film will be available for some foreseeable future. What would change is convenience to get one at many locations and affordable pricing. Since there are so many film cameras in the market and people have so much invested in them, there will be someone to support this market.

Case in point, we can still buy vacuum tubes, provided they are either popular and commonly used ones or very specialized expensive ones. Where as most in industrial countries (such as US and Japan) stopped manufacturing them, places like Eastern Europe and China, they are either making or refurbishing tubes to supply the smaller remaining market. While we can no longer buy them in local electronics stores, if you are willing to pay and know where and how, we can still buy them.

I expect something similar will happen to films. As major companies drop products that are unprofitable at their scale, smaller companies will emerge to start production in smaller amount to fill what is still a viable market at their scale.

At least this is what I believe and hope I am correct.

At one point; however, WE will be the one to make the decision to switch because availability and pricing no longer suites our needs.

nick mulder · Oct 9, 2009

phenix · Oct 9, 2009

Johannah Sentenn said:
I've returned to my Rollei and Hasselblad after years away from the camera, and I don't want to go digital. In fact, I want to add 4x5 and 8x10 to my portrait work. But before I go too deep into this world and invest money into equipment...

Taking into account what you already have + what you want to buy: investing in film equipment for 10 years from now one will cost you less than investing in digital upgrades during the next 2 years.
The era of large film industries is gone, but the era of small/specialized industries has just born. See Adox and Ilford. In this view, it is difficult to predict the future of Kodak, but Id bid on Adox and Harman for many (tens of) years to come. As for Fuji, it seems they still have a solid film market in Asia.
At least in B&W, digital will never replace film because B&W film and B&W digital are (much too) different "species". Only think at grain, which makes a film-based image vibrate. You cannot compare meat with vegetables. Eat what you like, eat what you consider to be sane, eat what you consider convenient for you - just to mention 3 criteria. Dont make a choice based on fear, but on what you consider best for you.

Ektagraphic · Oct 9, 2009

I have wanted to try MF for a long time so I just picked up an TLR to get started. I can't wait. I love 35mm slides so I can only imagine how great it is to look at a 120 slide!

Jeff Searust · Oct 9, 2009

My childrens' children will be able to buy film.

Alan Johnson · Oct 10, 2009

If it is wanted to shoot black and white 220 film I believe it has to be 320TXP now:
www.apug.org/forums/forum37/30978-save-220-film.html

JBrunner · Oct 10, 2009

Get your film and shoot. What happens, happens. No point in worrying about what you can't control. The materials you seek are available right now and will be around long enough for you to get going. Every time the market consolidates and we lose something, sad that it is, it puts something else in a stronger position. For example, when the Great Yellow Father stopped making B&W paper, that helped Ilford become a stronger more viable company.

There is enough demand that we are seeing new and resurrected products come to market made by smaller more nimble companies that are better suited to the market than the giant corporations that dominated when film was a multi billion dollar industry.

Film will never be completely replaced because it isn't a quality issue for most the folks still using it, it is an aesthetic issue, and an issue of taste.

keithwms · Oct 10, 2009

Yes, I agree, just shoot and be happy. Anyway who's to say that doing what everybody else does is a good thing for you? In a grossly overpopulated photography market at a time of economic decline, having a niche may be wise.

Just a couple of related points: medium and large format are not nearly as threatened by digital, IMHO, as small format. There are still many very valid reasons to shoot MF and LF film. Of course, there are also many good reasons to shoot 35mm film too, don't get me wrong, but IMHO the case for film MF is especially strong, not only because of tonality and detail but also because of the huge variety of gear and output methods. MF film offers many diverse gear options e.g. rangefinders and TLRs... in addition to SLRs and view cameras... and it's all very economically priced. Another issue is lenses... consider that many 'portrait effects' you see with digital 35mm are achieved only via postprocessing, whereas in MF you can use a vast library of portrait lenses with unique bokeh, e.g. petzvals and other brass lenses and imagons etc.

GGardner · Oct 10, 2009

No one knows for sure, but the fact that Kodak just added their hot new C-41 film (Ektar) in 120 is a good sign.

Future of medium format film

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