Future Kodachrome Colour Developing

Nzoomed · Nov 29, 2012

Back To Steve's orgianal Post...
I am keen to take up your offer, although i dont really want to spend that much on a roll for myself, i want to try and get other photographers to chip in and take a few shots per roll, i will find a good compact camera such as an olympus XA2 or something similar, and take a few shots for myself, and "share" the camera around a few others to split the costs, im sure there are many photographers who would be out there who would give that a go.

$260 for a 36exp roll sounds expensive, but that only works out at $7.20 per exposure, im happy to take a few shots at that price, but couldnt afford a whole roll for myself at this stage.

If we can find more in aussie who want to do the same thing, that would work out good, as we should be able to get 5 rolls together.

I will get a camera set up and loaded with K64 (i have 5 24exp rolls left) and will ask round for photographers here in New Zealand who wil be keen to have a few shots, its just a matter of recording how many exposures each photographer takes, so we know who's who's afterwards!

Could take a while before we get the films ready, as there are a few special places i would like to photograph over the summer, and im sure others will be too, so now's the time to look for people seriously interested and we go from there.
I think the "share the camera" idea as suggested is going to be the easiest and most attractive way to do this.

AgX · Nov 29, 2012

Nzoomed, please see here:

Stephen Frizza said:
I can do it, I currently have a small amount of chemistry left and to process more film in the future would need to buy additional chemicals.
I posted this as a way of guaging interest, and it is good to see there is a little bit out there. Though the idea of shooting on kodachrome for the sake of "One last time"
doesn't seem justified to me. If someone wanted me to go to all the effort of processing the material I would want to see previous work they had done and know the history of the roll they are wanting me to process and also why its justified I go to the effort of doing this. The price I posted is not a price I would profit from. surprisingly doing it as $260 a roll I make a small loss but it is the absolute bone cutting minimum for doing this process at of 2012. If I do decide to do it as a one off thing I will make it very public knowledge and give a future date as to when the one time process will occur.

Steven recently confirmed his attitude.

Ken Nadvornick · Nov 29, 2012

AgX said:
Steven recently confirmed his attitude.

Yes he did...

Ken

Nzoomed · Nov 29, 2012

AgX said:
Nzoomed, please see here:

Steven recently confirmed his attitude.

Which was what?
What thread was that?

AgX · Nov 30, 2012

This thread. Post # 109

I admit he did that limitation on his service quite late...

(By the way: by clicking on that little arrow behind the poster's name in a quotation you'll get to that posting in the original thread context.)

Nzoomed · Nov 30, 2012

AgX said:
This thread. Post # 109

I admit he did that limitation on his service quite late...

(By the way: by clicking on that little arrow behind the poster's name in a quotation you'll get to that posting in the original thread context.)

Oh yes i did catch part of that thread earlier.
I do understand why he would not want to waste his time on such a valuable process, if no one was shooting it seriously or professionally enough.
That would include myself and i wouldnt want to spend that much on a roll either, hence why the "share the camera" would be one last chance to let people like myself shoot kodachrome, one last time, personally i would like a photo of me and/or my family shot on it as a keepsake.

For now ive started shooting E6 (Ektachrome) for the first time and love it, ive stockpiled about 30 rolls of a mixture of E100G, E100VS and Elitechrome, which should last me a few years, enough for me to get a good taste of it before E6 processing finally dies perhaps.

I love E6, and love the results im getting, even if im not professional, while i still want to shoot kodachrome, i understand it may never happen, but will take the opportunity if it arises.
I should mention here that the demise of Kodachrome is ACTUALLY what has given me an interest in FILM photography again, well as far as reversal films goes it does.
I dont have much time for C41 films personally, i would rather shoot digital than C41.
There's something about reversal film that i like, but cant really put my finger on it, the whole image has a unique feel that digital cant replicate.

For now i want to keep E6 alive for as long as possible and only the power of us combined can keep that going, as long as people buy the stuff, and sales dont drop, it should be fine.

Something i may be interested to explore though is using motion picture film in a still camera. Kodak vision or any ECN2 film would be rather interesting to experiment with and i expect the picture would be significantly different than C41 films, (probably better as far as skin tones goes etc)

I think Steve should seriously look at helping this poor person who is struggling to produce a film dedicated to the space shuttle, he shot it on kodachrome and he has a few undeveloped rolls left that never made it to dwaynes.
His site is:
http://shuttlelaunchfilm.com/

I should try and put Stephen in contact with him.

Stephen Frizza · Nov 30, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
I don't disagree, but these "duratrans" materials were designed for large displays in stores for commercial purposes and thus were not specifically engineered to make small slide images for intimate projection or duplication through several generations.

PE

PE you hit on an important factor with this material it is a large backlit display material only. In 2009/2010 I extensively tested this material outside its designed use and this material certainly cant be used for intimate projection or duplication.

AgX · Nov 30, 2012

What was wrong with Duratrans (Duraclear?), in your experience?

ME Super · Nov 30, 2012

Do tell - what happens when you try to project it? Does it fade quickly? Is it because the grain is the size of basketballs when you do this? I'd feel a lot smarter if I knew what questions to ask about what's wrong with Duraclear/fujiclear/etc...

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2012

Duratrans is not adjusted for proper contrast or Dmax when used outside of its recommended use. That use, as stated, is a backlit display.

PE

Henning Serger · Nov 30, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Duratrans is not adjusted for proper contrast or Dmax when used outside of its recommended use. That use, as stated, is a backlit display.

PE

And in its recommended use it is (as well as the similar Fujifilm offerings) excellent. Not only in commercial use, but also as a big, colorful, brillant backlit picture in your home. There are several backlit options for such a use at home available.
Highly recommended, a very nice feature to give your room a real highlight.

Best regards,
Henning

PKM-25 · Nov 30, 2012

When ever Stephen is ready, I am ready with the money for 5 rolls and have a stellar project to shoot that I did not have time to wrangle before Dwayne's shut down, with over 60 rolls of the last batch of KR-64 in the freezer....time will tell if this really happens or not....

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2012

PKM-25 said:
When ever Stephen is ready, I am ready with the money for 5 rolls and have a stellar project to shoot that I did not have time to wrangle before Dwayne's shut down, with over 60 rolls of the last batch of KR-64 in the freezer....time will tell if this really happens or not....

All of this does not appear to fit Steve's guidelines for doing the work. The first 5 rolls may, but the rest?

See what Steve posted Dan.

PE

AgX · Nov 30, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Duratrans is not adjusted for proper contrast or Dmax when used outside of its recommended use. That use, as stated, is a backlit display.

PE

At least looking at data sheets I cannot see a lack of Dmax. Duraclear even has higher Dmax than Ektachrome Duplicate.

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2012

The clear display material has a Dmax similar to Ektachrome but the "frosted" material has higher Dmax AND Dmin. This is due to the "frosting" material that makes it semi opaque. The "similar" Dmax is about as far as the comparison can go due to issues of sharpness and grain (induced, in part, by the "frosting" material).

These images are designed to be viewed in huge displays and from a distance. Not up close and not projected from small images into huge images. See Steve's comment above for more on this.

PE

PKM-25 · Nov 30, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
All of this does not appear to fit Steve's guidelines for doing the work. The first 5 rolls may, but the rest?

See what Steve posted Dan.

PE

Which post? Last I heard he was checking on interest, 5 roll minimum, $260 a roll....

Photo Engineer · Nov 30, 2012

See his OP and several following expansions on his limits. Please see it in his own words. I did not book mark it. Sorry.

PE

PKM-25 · Nov 30, 2012

Stephen Frizza said:
I am not and will not process this film so people can simply indulge themselves by finding something to shoot just for the sake of using kodachrome. That's what Dwaynes 2011 cut off was for! The time and effort in processing kodachrome in colour by hand coupled by the fact that there is no profit margin in my costing of $260.00 a roll makes it simply not worth it.

I would only process on application if there was something historically significant left unprocessed on pre existing / pre exposed rolls of film. I would wish to discuss with a client before hand what is on the roll and see previous works of theirs before commencing colour Kodachrome development. I would also like to know the history of the films storage.

I don't mean to sound unfriendly. I was merely testing the waters in terms of processing costs. I was not implying that I am going to launch this as a commercial service for any Tom , Dick or Harry.

Wow…this is completely different than what the basic idea of the initial post was about and even what I was lead to believe in several PM's with Mr. Frizza…..

In terms of what I was trying to do, this basically puts the notion to bed for now since my project is neither rolls left over or historical per se. Back in late 2010, I had just started to gain traction on an idea of re-making significant Old Masters paintings on Kodachrome with a very creative approach using somewhat elaborate Hollywood movie set arrangements with great lighting an even accurate costume design to boot. The people I was in contact with are some of the better ones in the industry so pinning them down let alone getting them to commit to this sort of thing last moment was next to impossible.

So needless to say, even though I ended up shooting and processing about 100 rolls of Kodachrome well past the December 30th deadline given by Dwayne's, time simply ran out before this idea could bear fruit…

This idea was the very first thing I thought of when Stephen wrote "Just throwing it out there would anyone here be willing to pay $260 dollars per roll for Colour Kodachrome processing with a minimum of 5 rolls per order and payment before processing?" and lets just say my wheels started turning at a high RPM…

Since the first post and initial PM's, phone calls have been made, emails sent and the idea of this maybe being possible getting more people than I excited about the notion of these gorgeous shots being created. My wife often travels for work so I usually opt to go with her on some of her trips. This Sunday we are to fly to LA. so I had two meetings set up with contacts at Disney / Burbank Studios to further explore this in person…

Well I just canceled them, will still travel with my wife and instead go see my sister, niece and nephew and forget about this whole thing, LOL!!!

While Mr. Frizza is still to be commended for his amazing effort, I would have appreciated a personal heads up on these new developments before I went through the trouble of reeling this idea back in.

The film will always stay in my freezer, good luck to all in going forward…

Stephen Frizza · Dec 1, 2012

PKM-25 said:
When ever Stephen is ready, I am ready with the money for 5 rolls and have a stellar project to shoot that I did not have time to wrangle before Dwayne's shut down, with over 60 rolls of the last batch of KR-64 in the freezer....time will tell if this really happens or not....

60 rolls of the film would take me in excess of 120 hours to process from start to finish. With 260 dollars being the cost of materials only and not my time The cost to me would be 3 -4 weeks of unpaid work in my lab schedule.

Stephen Frizza · Dec 1, 2012

PKM-25 said:
Wow…this is completely different than what the basic idea of the initial post was about and even what I was lead to believe in several PM's with Mr. Frizza…..

Since the first post and initial PM's, phone calls have been made, emails sent and the idea of this maybe being possible getting more people than I excited about the notion of these gorgeous shots being created. My wife often travels for work so I usually opt to go with her on some of her trips. This Sunday we are to fly to LA. so I had two meetings set up with contacts at Disney / Burbank Studios to further explore this in person…

Well I just canceled them, will still travel with my wife and instead go see my sister, niece and nephew and forget about this whole thing, LOL!!!

While Mr. Frizza is still to be commended for his amazing effort, I would have appreciated a personal heads up on these new developments before I went through the trouble of reeling this idea back in.

The film will always stay in my freezer, good luck to all in going forward…

This is quite rude seeing we have spoken multiple times in private emails about this and I beleive I have made it very clear to you I was only testing the waters for interest in this service and how people reacted to the cost price of chemistry to do it.

Please see extracts from the private emails I personally sent you where I made it very clear if I am to do the process I would be selective about whom I processed for..

FIRST PRIVATE EMAIL TO YOU: 7th of November

"Thanks for your message, I have been doing various tests processing my own Kodachrome stocks though colour chemistry and as a pro lab owner I have recently been curious about the potential market for such a service. I do not own a K-lab machine and I know for a fact that the chemical process I run to produce a colour kodachrome is not compatible with a K-lab. I also wont be making the service available to the general public (if I make it available at all) Instead It will be upon application only.

The reason for this is because the length of time the process takes and the huge amount of work that is involved to get the final result. I don't want to waste my time on images that are rubbish. The cost of $260 dollars per roll isn't a figure that factors in my labor. Once all chemicals are sourced it will literally cost $258 US to process each roll so i just rounded it off to 260.

If someone had a K-Lab that could get proper volumes of film they would have a serious advantage over me in ability to process and their chemical costs would certainly be lower than my own.

I am still tinkering with the idea of bringing back this process for others, I will keep you up to date with anything involving this n a commercial front I do."

MY SECOND EMAIL TO YOU : 11th of November

"As I said in my last email, I merely posted on APUG to gauge expressions of interest. I am not certain I am going to offer this service at the current time or in the future. I am still tinkering with the idea."

.................................................................................END OF EMAILS..............................

I would suggest before making phone calls,sending people emails and having meetings with Disney / Burbank Studios about doing a shoot on a material like Kodachorme it would be best to secure a processing arrangement with the only person currently doing it.

This being said I have been contacted by a gentleman who has been working on a long project about the Space Shuttle and I will endeavor to assist him in completing parts of the processing for this historical project all things permitting in 2013.

railwayman3 · Dec 1, 2012

To be fair, the original post gave no indication that $260 was a costing for the chemicals only, or that there was any restriction on what films might be accepted. Obviously time and profit ought to have been costed into the equation to avoid misleading people.

Dan put an enormous amount of work into his projects and the free kodachromeproject.com website and forums, the latter gave many of us a lot of interest and benefit in the last couple of years of "official" Kodachrome. You can hardly criticise him for putting in the initial work with Disney, etc., obviously that would be the first part of assessing whether the whole shoot was possible and viable....what if processing had already been set up and then the project had to be pulled, simply through lack of proper preparation and planning?

Still, what do I know.....

Nzoomed · Dec 1, 2012

Stephen Frizza said:
This being said I have been contacted by a gentleman who has been working on a long project about the Space Shuttle and I will endeavor to assist him in completing parts of the processing for this historical project all things permitting in 2013.

Thats good that he contacted you, i got him to get in contact with you as he had'nt stumbled across this thread.

MartinP · Dec 1, 2012

PKM-25 . . . .

Regarding that project for the paintings recreation thing . . . How about shooting on 8x10" color neg? There would be fewer contrast and lighting struggles, and final images could go directly to RA4 paper. An analogue process from end to end with potentially gorgeous final quality and still available using US sourced materials, if that makes a difference to the sponsors. That way you get to do the project just before the end of the materials instead of just after . . .

StoneNYC · Dec 1, 2012

PKM-25 said:
When ever Stephen is ready, I am ready with the money for 5 rolls and have a stellar project to shoot that I did not have time to wrangle before Dwayne's shut down, with over 60 rolls of the last batch of KR-64 in the freezer....time will tell if this really happens or not....

When did you acquire 60 extra rolls? Was it after 2010?

~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PKM-25 · Dec 1, 2012

Stephen Frizza said:
60 rolls of the film would take me in excess of 120 hours to process from start to finish. With 260 dollars being the cost of materials only and not my time The cost to me would be 3 -4 weeks of unpaid work in my lab schedule.

Hi Stephen, I in no way gave indication that I would want to use all 60 rolls of film I have on hand only that I had them, that would be excessive given the obvious labor and costs involved. In terms of what you wrote in reply to my other post, I just wished you would have replied to my last PM with this new info so I would not have embarrassed my self with Burbank Studios like I did.....you never replied to my PM but instead posted on here after I last PM'd you...:-(

Like I said before, the idea has been shelved again for now...
Maybe you will find a way to strike a balance, make it a more dependable and professional offering in the future and we can revisit this. So having said this, I truly admire what you are trying to do ( if I am even clear on this ) and wish you the best of luck in going forward.

As for my historical connection to the film, most on here know what that is and no new lab will ever change that...

Future Kodachrome Colour Developing

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