Future Kodachrome Colour Developing

pharmboycu · Nov 18, 2012

Stephen Frizza said:
I can do it, I currently have a small amount of chemistry left and to process more film in the future would need to buy additional chemicals.
I posted this as a way of guaging interest, and it is good to see there is a little bit out there. Though the idea of shooting on kodachrome for the sake of "One last time"
doesn't seem justified to me. If someone wanted me to go to all the effort of processing the material I would want to see previous work they had done and know the history of the roll they are wanting me to process and also why its justified I go to the effort of doing this. The price I posted is not a price I would profit from. surprisingly doing it as $260 a roll I make a small loss but it is the absolute bone cutting minimum for doing this process at of 2012. If I do decide to do it as a one off thing I will make it very public knowledge and give a future date as to when the one time process will occur.

Perhaps there are a few of us who could get together with a roll each to make up the minimum necessary quantity? I don't know if my roll is even compatible with Stephen's process though, and if it were, it's a roll of Kodachrome 200 that has been sitting in my parents' freezer for a year or more after exposure. I would imagine this would make the process exponentially more difficult. The photos are of little value to anyone else, but they are photos of my nephew when he was about 1 year old, so the value is certainly there for me.

Photo Engineer · Nov 18, 2012

If you had read this thread, you would find that there are many similar offers.

PE

pharmboycu · Nov 19, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
If you had read this thread, you would find that there are many similar offers.

PE

Ouch. I did read the thread, but obviously not closely enough. My apologies.

John

LJSLATER · Nov 19, 2012

I'd rather have Aerochrome EIR back. Just throwing it out there.

j.c.denton · Nov 20, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
As it now stands, Kodachrome was the first reversal film to go, process and all, and E6 may follow in its footsteps. Kodak has already discontinued their E6 line of films. Fuji now has the full market, but digital is replacing reversal film rapidly. So, the full E6 line will be the next to go. [...]

PE, intuitively, what is your best guess, how long will E6 be with us? I shot analogue precisely because of E6. I don't think C-41 could do it for me. I would probably go back to digital. I already regret that I discovered analogue photography so late. Last two years have been really, really great.

Best wishes,
Christian

AgX · Nov 20, 2012

In 2009 a renown scientist in the field of colour films predicted that there would not be any colour films manufactured by 2011...

So much about predictions. Have to polish my crystal ball now...

RobertoMiglioli · Nov 20, 2012

Film will be around for a long time since we keep buying it. There´s probably more people shooting film today than there was 30 years ago.

Photo Engineer · Nov 20, 2012

The question is not about film being around, but rather about E6 being around, and also whether C41 is up to the task of replacing E6 as a viable color film.

I cannot predict anything! I am with AgX. I have no crystal ball. I can say that sames are tiny compared to color neg. And, a well done color neg can actually exceed the quality of any E6 product.

PE

polyglot · Nov 20, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
And, a well done color neg can actually exceed the quality of any E6 product.

PE

While I quite agree on matters like colour accuracy, there is the matter of (negative) display materials having much poorer dynamic range (than chromes) because they're reflective instead of transmissive.

wogster · Nov 20, 2012

polyglot said:
While I quite agree on matters like colour accuracy, there is the matter of (negative) display materials having much poorer dynamic range (than chromes) because they're reflective instead of transmissive.

That's with prints though, it's hard to know the dynamic range of a C41 negative printed on say motion picture print film, the problem though may be the same as the problem for E6 though, because MP is moving towards digital presentation as well. There is an advantage there though, you only really need one emulsion at one speed which is fairly slow, so it can be produced in larger batches, and lasts longer in storage, then an E6 film.

AgX · Nov 20, 2012

C-41 and motion print films are not optimized on each other concerning gamma.

However there is RA-4 transparency film, that has a Dmax above 3.

Photo Engineer · Nov 20, 2012

polyglot said:
While I quite agree on matters like colour accuracy, there is the matter of (negative) display materials having much poorer dynamic range (than chromes) because they're reflective instead of transmissive.

ECN (Vision film family) on ECP, the print film has a dynamic range about 2x over RA4 prints and about 30% greater than E6 films.

For technical reasons, E6 films achieve a Dmax of about 3.0 with the concomitant range while neg-pos makes a range with a Dmax of about 5.0 and if there were still a print film out there, a single view would knock your socks off. But then you see something like it in every motion picture you see.

Do not, as AgX says here, try to cross C41 neg with ECP nor ECN with some type of print film other than ECN. They are not compatible. A good quality scan of a negative is outstanding, but that is the topic for elsewhere.

PE

ME Super · Nov 20, 2012

RA-4 transparency film? Tell me more. This might be a good alternative to E-6 by contact printing the negatives if E-6 is no longer available. Or just to get slides from negatives perhaps? Ron, can RA-4 transparency film be used for getting slides from negatives to project?

Photo Engineer · Nov 20, 2012

Ektacolor Print film, (4111?) has not been made since about 2000. I have dozens of "slides" from negatives made this way though.

Sorry. Scanning is the best option.

PE

ME Super · Nov 20, 2012

What about Kodak Professional Duraclear Digital Display material (http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e119/e119.pdf) - is it still made? It looks like it's intended for lightjet printing or a film recorder then processed in RA-4 chemistry.

AgX · Nov 20, 2012

Agfa has two clear transparency films in their range, one true RA-4 and one to be processed either in C-41 or RA-4.
Ilford has one clear and one opaque transparency film for RA-4 in their assortment.

Photo Engineer · Nov 20, 2012

The C41 product would give better sharpness and grain.

PE

polyglot · Nov 20, 2012

These clear RA4 films, can they be projected like a slide or are they intended for use only on backlit displays? I see B&H has Fujitrans & Fujiclear but the min quantities are impressive and they mostly say "optimised for digital" which makes me suspect serious crossover.

Slides on ECP would be lovely I'm sure but I don't see it for sale and I don't see an equivalent (other than Duraclear in 30"+ rolls!) for printing C41 instead of ECN.

Sure I can scan and I have some good prints from scans but the limitation there is again dynamic range of the final display compared to a chrome or what's in a neg. Our pro labs offer nothing except Endura, Crystal Archive and inkjet.

Photo Engineer · Nov 20, 2012

Some RA4 materials are clear and some are translucent for display.

ECP slides can be bought for a price, but make sure that it is ECN to ECP or the contrast and gamut are off.

PE

ME Super · Nov 20, 2012

So we are looking at the Agfa C-41 or ECP. The future of ECP is probably short due to the mass conversion of movie theaters to digital projection, which leaves us with E-6, Agfa C-41, or materials like the FujiClear film. A roll of the fujiclear would probably last photographers like us a very long time if we were to use it for contact prints of C-41 negatives. I wonder how well it would stand up to projection.

Wow this thread has gotten off-topic. We started out talking about future Kodachrome processing and now we're talking about how to get our slide fix if E-6 disappears (hey, I'm an optimist!). But that's okay this topic needs to be explored.

Photo Engineer · Nov 20, 2012

ME;

Look at what you wish. All Analog is in trouble. I cannot help nor can anyone except by large scale purchases.

PE

AgX · Nov 21, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
The C41 product would give better sharpness and grain.

PE

You are very right. But even the RA-4 film is above standard camera film concerning resolution.

Photo Engineer · Nov 21, 2012

I don't disagree, but these "duratrans" materials were designed for large displays in stores for commercial purposes and thus were not specifically engineered to make small slide images for intimate projection or duplication through several generations.

PE

wogster · Nov 21, 2012

ME Super said:
So we are looking at the Agfa C-41 or ECP. The future of ECP is probably short due to the mass conversion of movie theaters to digital projection, which leaves us with E-6, Agfa C-41, or materials like the FujiClear film. A roll of the fujiclear would probably last photographers like us a very long time if we were to use it for contact prints of C-41 negatives. I wonder how well it would stand up to projection.

Wow this thread has gotten off-topic. We started out talking about future Kodachrome processing and now we're talking about how to get our slide fix if E-6 disappears (hey, I'm an optimist!). But that's okay this topic needs to be explored.

While film distributors would like to kill off analog projection, it cost's about $100K per screen to go digital, and for the theatre owner, there isn't any real advantage, other then being able to provide fake 3D....

michaelbsc · Nov 21, 2012

ME Super said:
Wow this thread has gotten off-topic. We started out talking about future Kodachrome processing and now we're talking about how to get our slide fix if E-6 disappears (hey, I'm an optimist!). But that's okay this topic needs to be explored.

I'm not sure I wold even consider it off topic. I think we're precisely sizing up the future of Kodachrome.

Future Kodachrome Colour Developing

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