Fujihunt X-Press C-41 Developer Part C Went Black

Mike Chalmers · Feb 10, 2020

So as the title says, my part C is black and murky.

I know that this is an expiry / air issue but wanted to confirm whether this would still work or if it would have a negative effect on the film before I use or dispose of it.

I mixed some up a couple of weeks back and it was fine, but pulled it out the box today and it’s changed. My inclination is to replace it but wondered if it was actually useless or not.

thanks!

Tom Kershaw · Feb 10, 2020

Not sure about the Fuji kit as I've not used it for a while. However my experience is that completely mixed C-41 developer solutions keep very well if stored in full containers.

Mike Chalmers · Feb 10, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
Not sure about the Fuji kit as I've not used it for a while. However my experience is that completely mixed C-41 developer solutions keep very well if stored in full containers.

I'll bear that in mind for next time - if I were to buy the 5L kit would you recommend I make it all up when opened?

koraks · Feb 10, 2020

Mike Chalmers said:
wanted to confirm whether this would still work or if it would have a negative effect on the film before I use or dispose of it.

It will have lost most or all of its activity and will result in either gross underdevelopment or no development taking place at all.
The part C doesn't last long when it's opened. As Tom noted, the working solution keeps quite well (for months at least) in full, tightly capped glass bottles.

Mike Chalmers · Feb 10, 2020

koraks said:
It will have lost most or all of its activity and will result in either gross underdevelopment or no development taking place at all.
The part C doesn't last long when it's opened. As Tom noted, the working solution keeps quite well (for months at least) in full, tightly capped glass bottles.

okay, thanks for getting back to me- I’ve order new chemicals and will ditch this one.

I don’t have glass bottles but do have brown darkroom accordion bottles (allowing for removing extra air). Would these work? What makes glass bottles the best?

Cheers

Mike Chalmers · Feb 10, 2020

This is what I have multiple of:

https://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/ap-chemical-storage-bottle-2-litres-3396z/p851

Rudeofus · Feb 10, 2020

These accordion bottles allow you to squeeze out air before you close it, but they also have larger surface area, which means more air will diffuse in. They are also a bit more difficult to clean, and you already know, that oxidized developer tends to become dark and sticky.

You can get brown glass bottles for very little money (think: low single digit GBP amounts) in every pharmacy, so shipping or special ordering are not required. You can also try to find some source of inert gas, or order Tetenal's Protectan to remove the last trace of Oxygen from halfway filled bottles.

In my experience, color chemistry concentrates (C-41, E-6) stored that way last well over a year after the original bottles are opened.

Tom Kershaw · Feb 10, 2020

I used Kodak Flexicolor developer made up on 3rd November last year, yesterday, and performance was fine. If you're going to be processing a reasonable amount of C-41 the separate packages can make more sense as the bleach has a huge capacity compared to the developer which shouldn't be overused.

koraks · Feb 11, 2020

Mike Chalmers said:
What makes glass bottles the best?

Easy to clean, impermeable to air/oxygen, easy to get and quite affordable (especially if you realize they last a long time). Btw I use clear glass as it allows me to see the color of the contents; some chemicals are best stored in the dark or at least away from uv light. Clear bottles in a dark cupboard work fine.

bernard_L · Feb 11, 2020

Rudeofus said:
These accordion bottles allow you to squeeze out air before you close it, but they also have larger surface area, which means more air will diffuse in.

Also, they are made of HDPE, which has one of the highest permeabilities to atmospheric gases, among plastics; PET (soda bottles) is much better in that respect.

Rudeofus · Feb 11, 2020

bernard_L said:
Also, they are made of HDPE, which has one of the highest permeabilities to atmospheric gases, among plastics; PET (soda bottles) is much better in that respect.

The best plastic bottles I have ever found for storage of photographic developers were emptied and cleaned bottles of commercial liquid developer concentrates. Unlike the suppliers of photo stores, makers of these liquid concentrates know which plastic material to use.

Mike Chalmers · Feb 11, 2020

Ah, that makes total sense, thanks.

@Rudeofus why does every pharmacy stock brown glass bottles? My closest is the one inside a Morrisons, but have a feeling they won't have them.

Mike Chalmers · Feb 11, 2020

Rudeofus said:
You can get brown glass bottles for very little money (think: low single digit GBP amounts) in every pharmacy

Tried the nearest independent pharmacy and they said they only have small ones (250ml) and he doesn't think any pharmacy would stock 1litre (what I would need)..

Mike Chalmers · Feb 11, 2020

I can see 1litre Winchester bottles for quite cheap online, I'd like to order today - what caps are best to use for this purpose?

Available:

Aluminium
T/E Cap
PP Screw Cap
Medilock Cap
Polycone Screw Cap
Glass Stopper

Thanks everyone

Mike Chalmers · Feb 11, 2020

Okay, I've ordered amber bottles (with two cap types - PP Screw and Polycone Screw, so let me know if you have guidance) - I found a few websites but, for UK users, Ampulla is FAR cheaper (products and especially shipping) compared to the first Google hits:

https://www.ampulla.co.uk/

Rudeofus · Feb 11, 2020

The cap has only a fraction of the surface area of your bottle. Be prepared for sticky stuff at the mouth of your bottle, in my experience plastic caps are much easier to open under such circumstances than aluminum caps. I would not recommend glass stopper, because there will be a time, when one of these bottles falls over. BTDT.

Mike Chalmers · Feb 11, 2020

Rudeofus said:
The cap has only a fraction of the surface area of your bottle. Be prepared for sticky stuff at the mouth of your bottle, in my experience plastic caps are much easier to open under such circumstances than aluminum caps. I would not recommend glass stopper, because there will be a time, when one of these bottles falls over. BTDT.

Ok, fab - thanks for the advice!

bernard_L · Feb 11, 2020

Mike Chalmers said:
he doesn't think any pharmacy would stock 1litre (what I would need)..

Try approaching, at a university or college, any of the chemistry, physics, electronics departments. It's likely that they use reagents and solvents in brown glass bottles, which are discarded once empty. Some 1 litre, some 2.5 litre. These bottles also have properly shaped stoppers and bottle lips that are air-tight. Good luck.

halfaman · Feb 12, 2020

Mike Chalmers said:
What makes glass bottles the best?

koraks said:
Easy to clean, impermeable to air/oxygen, easy to get and quite affordable (especially if you realize they last a long time).

Glass also has an excelent resistance for acids and bases in practical terms, and in amber presentation blocks up to 90% of UV radiation.

GeorgK · Feb 12, 2020

halfaman said:
Glass also has an excelent resistance for acids and bases in practical terms....

Not in all cases. I once reused cheap one-way beverages bottles for aliquoting C41, and the relatively high pH of the developer (approx. pH=10) attacked the glass surfaces, producing a lot of fine, almost invisble "chips" which ruined a few films (by sticking to the emulsion). The high pH is also a good reason to stay away from aluminium caps.
More "serious" glass bottles shoud be fine, but just in case keep an eye on such things. Lab-standard glass bottles (borosilicate glass) are the best, but expensive, especially if you need a lot of small bottles for working aliquots.
For practical usability I greatly prefer PET bottles because the are (mostly, not absolutely) air-tight.Just wait until you drop your first glass bottle...
For PET, thick-walled is better then thin-walled, but even the latter are usually fine for months (depending on the type of developer, as always).

halfaman · Feb 13, 2020

I use standard amber glass bottles to store C-41 and RA-4 developers without any trace of problems whatsoever for almost a year (and counting). I bought them new, no reuse, a 1 liter bottle cost me 1,7€ with cap included. Chemistry is like new every time I open a bottle.

BMbikerider · Feb 13, 2020

GeorgK said:
Not in all cases. I once reused cheap one-way beverages bottles for aliquoting C41, and the relatively high pH of the developer (approx. pH=10) attacked the glass surfaces, producing a lot of fine, almost invisble "chips" which ruined a few films (by sticking to the emulsion). The high pH is also a good reason to stay away from aluminium caps.
More "serious" glass bottles shoud be fine, but just in case keep an eye on such things. Lab-standard glass bottles (borosilicate glass) are the best, but expensive, especially if you need a lot of small bottles for working aliquots.
For practical usability I greatly prefer PET bottles because the are (mostly, not absolutely) air-tight.Just wait until you drop your first glass bottle...
For PET, thick-walled is better then thin-walled, but even the latter are usually fine for months (depending on the type of developer, as always).

There is always one who will argue black is white. I have used glass for all chemicals related to photographic chemicals and never had a problem. Amy risk with ordinary colour or B&W chemicals will be around .0001%

koraks · Feb 13, 2020

I too share the experiemce of 0 failure rate with glass bottles. The pH of a typical color developer (around 10 for c41 or 10.25-10.40 for ra4) is really in no way a problem for glass at all. In fact, I store 10% solutions of NaOH and KOH in glass bottles without any issue. There are very few things that glass wont withstand, but these are not typically encountered in a photographic darkroom; think of hydrogen fluoride (which you really don't want to have in your home!) I can't explain the experience of glass bottles being corroded by typical darkroom chemistry, other than a serious manufacturing defect. These, of course, can occur, but are extremely rare in my experience.

Mike Chalmers · Feb 14, 2020

Thanks for the help everyone - I ordered more chemicals which I have received and used and very happy I didn't take the risk.

My bottles and caps for storing mixed Developer have arrived and I made a mistake ordering - instead of amber glass litre bottles, I got amber PET plastic litre bottles.

I've seen elsewhere PET is second to glass - my question is: would you use these (I have 5x bottles for 5 litres), or would you order glass and ditch these bottles?

I reckon this is 3 months worth of supply for how much I shoot.

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