Fujiflex vs. Maxima RA-4 paper

A couple of times we speculated on how those two papers compare . Since at this time the status on Fujiflex production is unknown/uncertain, this comparison might prove to be utterly meaningless, but anyway...

Fujiflex top, Maxima bottom.

Same time and filtration for both prints:

One of test print of Fujiflex which I then tried to match on Maxima. After second test print on Maxima I knew that with two points less yellow I would probably be so close to Fujiflex that I could not tell them apart (if it wasn't for the completely different surface):

Only difference was in deep shadows. Maxima curiously had a slight blue shine (yeah, shine in deep shadows, but I don't have a better word). And it's not just in scans, if you look Maxima print at a just the right angle in strong light it's definitely visible. My Maxima is almost 2 years old (although it was frozen for about a year of that time):

Final print:

Yeah, that looks really close indeed. As you said, the base is totally different, but it's clear that the imaging characteristics are very similar. The slight difference in yellow could also be in part due to aging effects.
The blue shine I expect is an artefact of the surface characteristics of the Maxima paper; have you compared it side by side with DPII in this regard?

I wish I could buy a heavy weight professional paper in cut sheets. ADOX are you listening?

koraks said:

The slight difference in yellow could also be in part due to aging effects.

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I think a slight change in filtration to remove some yellow in Maxima would give the same colours as Fujiflex. Maxima's unexposed whites are actually slightly cooler than Fujiflex.

koraks said:

The blue shine I expect is an artefact of the surface characteristics of the Maxima paper; have you compared it side by side with DPII in this regard?

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Not yet, but I will. I think I still have a few DPII sheets left. I hope they are still good (about the same age as Maxima but were at room temperature the whole time)...

mshchem said:

I wish I could buy a heavy weight professional paper in cut sheets. ADOX are you listening?

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Don't we all. I was so excited when Adox recently announced that they will be cutting Fuji paper and so bummed when learning they will only be doing the plain Crystal Archive.

Someone cuts ordinary Crystal Archive paper for the US market, happy for that. Still even at twice the price to get a decent paper that's not so flimsy would be great.
I need to get out what I have and get to printing.

koraks said:

Yeah, that looks really close indeed. As you said, the base is totally different, but it's clear that the imaging characteristics are very similar. The slight difference in yellow could also be in part due to aging effects.
The blue shine I expect is an artefact of the surface characteristics of the Maxima paper; have you compared it side by side with DPII in this regard?

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I had the same result when comparing DPII and Maxima. Maxima was slightly cooler and I needed to give a couple of yellow points to match the print with DPII. Shadow density was higher in Maxima with the same exposure time, giving the apperance of more contrast. I didn't notice any "Blue shine".

My impression is that DPII and Fujiflex are the same emulsion on a different base. Maxima is a diferent emulsion than DPII on the same base.

halfaman said:

My impression is that DPII and Fujiflex are the same emulsion on a different base. Maxima is a diferent emulsion than DPII on the same base.

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This is not entirely correct. DPII and Maxima are the same emulsion, coated on the same line, and on the same base. The difference between Maxima and DPII is the thickness of the emulsion layers. This also explains your observation of higher density for the same exposure; dmax and chroma are higher for Maxima, but the main advantage of Maxima is that its layer structure gives it enhanced archival stability through better UV filtering and shielding from atmospheric pollutants. Fujiflex is made in Japan on a different line and on a different base; the emulsion is also locally made. I think there are subtle differences in the emulsions used for Fujiflex vs. those used for DPII, Maxima and the rest of the Crystal Archive range (it's all the same emulsion).

brbo said:

Not yet, but I will. I think I still have a few DPII sheets left. I hope they are still good (about the same age as Maxima but were at room temperature the whole time)...

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I've got some here that's newer than that and that still fine; drop me a note if you need some, I could easily box up some sheets and send them off.

I have always thought the two would be very close in color and contrast characteristics. But here in the US, there is no present access to Maxima; so I am unable to test that for myself. The very slight differences being mentioned on this thread could easily be due to variables of emulsion aging prior to development, or inevitable slight variations in processing. Of course, Fujiflex is not a paper at all, but coated on polyester base, and that by itself creates a quit different look.

I'm a bit conflicted at the moment whether or not I want to do any color printing this year. Potentially debilitating tariffs are soon to set in, including for black and white paper; so I have to spend my darkroom budget wisely. Convenient RA4 kits are now back in stock, and I'd like to experiment with the new-style Super C product, which might be the same as Euro DPII. What still remains of my big 30 inch roll of Fujiflex
might or might not still be good.

Something which Flex, Maxima, and Super C N all officially have in common per spec sheet is higher resistance to pre-exposure yellowing than the cheaper papers like ordinary CA and Supreme. And since Super C "New" claims to have even better green and black repro than even its immediate predecessor, it should be substantially better than CA cut sheet products. But all of the cut sheet RA4 paper being marketed in the US is the same thin product line, despite at least 3 different private label renditions of it having turned up.

"N" (new style) Super C is relatively affordable, has a good thick base, and is readily available in the US in many rolls widths clear up to 60 inch. Its versatility might be one reason there is no push to bring Maxima into the country. Based on its specific predecessors, it should have very good display fade resistance, that is, if common sense is involved.

There are times the saturation and contrast of Fujiflex is simply over the top, especially for someone like me who often enlarges 8x10 Ektar originals. But oh, that wonderful 3D depth and incredible detail rendition when Flex is the ticket!

koraks said:

I've got some here that's newer than that and that still fine; drop me a note if you need some, I could easily box up some sheets and send them off.

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Thanks for your offer. That's very kind. My DPII seem to still be good. I made a print on it with the same filtration and exposure time as on Maxima. I get basically the same density on both but DPII leans more towards red (similar to Fujiflex when printed with the same filtration as Maxima). I'll post scans when I have a print on DPII that best matches the Maxima one.