Fujifilm to discontiue FP-100B and 400B instant films (in Japanese market)

Q.G. · Oct 24, 2009

GraemeMitchell said:
This will be sad if true, as I actually use 100B professionally for proofing. It took me a few tests after switching from Polaroid, but I managed to get TX in HC-110 to match the 100B almost exactly at the same EI.

What, what, what? You were changing your final product, the thing you have to be happy with, so that it would match your test material???

Marco B · Oct 24, 2009

This sucks,

What I don't really understand is why they are discontinuing the 400 ISO variant, while maintaining the 3000 ISO... in terms of proofing, it would be much more logical to maintain 400 ISO, and get rid of the 3000 ISO stuff, as all the major films like TMax 400 and TXP 320, HP5 are close or 400 ISO.

However, strangely also, Fuji, if I may believe the Japan Exposures website never produced a 4x5 400ISO instant film (only a smaller variant, not fully covering 4x5 image format), while they did produce an an uncommon 500 ISO 4x5 variant (FP-500 B45).

GraemeMitchell · Oct 24, 2009

Q.G. said:
What, what, what? You were changing your final product, the thing you have to be happy with, so that it would match your test material???

You could say that, but it's really not that simple. Often for jobs I need a work-flow that is set up so what I proof on the instant is what I get on the contact sheet / film, or very close anyway. Period. The old Polaroid had a look and response that when I got a shot I liked on it, I knew what to do to the film to reflect that. Then I switched to Fuji, dropped it into that process, and when I got what I wanted on it the film didn't match, so I had to change things til it did.

But I'm talking controlled situations here: lit, controlled, sets, etc. And the instant film is only a link in that chain, so it's not just about bending the film+dev, but really everything, to insure a workflow that is reliable and repeatable.

Make sense?

For most editorial and my own projects it's different, of course. And, luckily for the way I work, I've never personally been that concerned with or connected to specific materials, I've been able to bend films+devs+digitals to the ideas. But it's still a nuisance when something that works well threatens to go away...as someone said, a tool lost.

Q.G. · Oct 24, 2009

Sounds backwards to me.
You have to know what your film - the thing that will be the end product - is capable of doing, and use the dreadful instant film (bad contrast and tonality) to check for surprises.
I never hear of anyone tweaking the film so it would match the Polaroid before.

Film is much, much more capable than that instant film stuff. Seems a terrible waste to mistreat it so it mimics what you get on the instant proof thingy.

Instant film 'proofs' only served one 'real' purpose anyway, and that was to give clients present at the shoot an idea that they too mattered ("Here's the Polaroid. What do you think?") and/or that you are a professional using all the professional tricks available, so their money was well spent.
A Polaroid will show nothing you couldn't and shouldn't see yourself, while the big difference between it and a real photo takes your experience and knowledge to judge how the final thing can be despite the limited quality the Polaroid shows (you couln't give clients Polaroids without ensuring them that the image on film would be much better, so not to worry).
As such, sooner a hindrance than a help for your workflow.

BetterSense · Oct 24, 2009

So, as I asked before, what instant films are still available?

GraemeMitchell · Oct 24, 2009

Q.G. said:
Sounds backwards to me.

I think the way you're taking what I'm saying a bit too, um, intensely. I mean that in a non-antagonistic way. But, look, everyone here understands there's more on the film than there is on the Instant, and that anyone would always try in the end to get the most out of the film. Of course.

Still, I don't ever like til people on set, hey, don't worry, it'll be on the film. Not at all, unless there's something exceptional I can't control or change. Otherwise, say if there's not enough light on part of the instant, or fill or whatever, then I change it til it is. (But this is just a preference of how to work, and is really no big deal if done differently by others; if someone does it differently, or more loosely, cool. But I grew up assisting and learning from a few very good commercial still life photographers, and I took from them a certain perfectionism in these matters. Bottom line, these sort of specific of the way I work really doesn't matter, not here.)

And for what it's worth. The Fuji instant isn't crap imo at all. It's actually remarkably good. I'm surprised, if you've used it, that you'd say that. Now the old Polaroid stuff was a different beast. A lot of guys shooting color I knew preferred it, b/c the Poloroid stuff, made the film such a treat when it came back from the lab, b/cit looked so much better. Whereas the Fuji Instant was so good that they'd get contact sheets back and the client would want to know why it wasn't as gutty and colorful as the Fuji instant. Lol.

Anyway, we all work differently and do our own things. There's not right way here. Imo. B/c, yes, I do see Instant film as an aid to my film work flow on commercial jobs. As I stated, it makes them possible (no proof film, then it'll be digi for the most part). Unless I have an extra assistant who can literally run some test rolls of film quickly as I shoot the job (a la Avedon), which is a good option in studio.

lns · Oct 24, 2009

Q.G. said:
Sounds backwards to me.
You have to know what your film - the thing that will be the end product - is capable of doing, and use the dreadful instant film (bad contrast and tonality) to check for surprises.
I never hear of anyone tweaking the film so it would match the Polaroid before.

Film is much, much more capable than that instant film stuff. Seems a terrible waste to mistreat it so it mimics what you get on the instant proof thingy.

Instant film 'proofs' only served one 'real' purpose anyway, and that was to give clients present at the shoot an idea that they too mattered ("Here's the Polaroid. What do you think?") and/or that you are a professional using all the professional tricks available, so their money was well spent.
A Polaroid will show nothing you couldn't and shouldn't see yourself, while the big difference between it and a real photo takes your experience and knowledge to judge how the final thing can be despite the limited quality the Polaroid shows (you couln't give clients Polaroids without ensuring them that the image on film would be much better, so not to worry).
As such, sooner a hindrance than a help for your workflow.

I use instant film proofs to check exposure for portraits in tricky light. I know the film will look better. But I would much rather check the instant film than deal with printing problems later. I also show the subject the proofs and find it relaxes them. Were fussy clients on site I would absolutely show it to them for approval and reassurance.

Using instant film with my Hasselblad is a big advantage, and I would regret it if it disappeared. I don't use it that much, so I'm probably part of the problem.

-Laura

infrar3d · Oct 24, 2009

Mixed message

I'd hate to see FP-100B discontinued. They just officially released the 4x5 size in the U.S. less than a month ago.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/press/news/display_news?newsID=879791

IloveTLRs · Oct 24, 2009

Marco B said:
What I don't really understand is why they are discontinuing the 400 ISO variant, while maintaining the 3000 ISO... in terms of proofing, it would be much more logical to maintain 400 ISO, and get rid of the 3000 ISO stuff, as all the major films like TMax 400 and TXP 320, HP5 are close or 400 ISO.

Apparently the B&W 100 and 400 were selling quite poorly

Q.G. · Oct 24, 2009

lns said:
I use instant film proofs to check exposure for portraits in tricky light. I know the film will look better. But I would much rather check the instant film than deal with printing problems later.

Sure. I 'have no issues' with that.

The question however is: do you adjust the way you process the film so that it matches the instant proofs?

That, Graeme, is what sounds rather backwards to me.
As Laura too said, film is better. And to restrict what you produce on film to what the instant proof shows ... a terrible shame if you ask me.

As to the discontinuation of these types of instant film: i have discontinued using instant film - all of it - a while ago already. I have no use for it anymore.
So i don't really have a reason to mind myself. But don't get me wrong: i feel for you who do like to use it. It's always a pitty when something goes away.

Marco B · Oct 25, 2009

IloveTLRs said:
Apparently the B&W 100 and 400 were selling quite poorly

Well, no surprise really, if they don't even distribute it in most countries!

Here in the Netherlands, I can't even get the 400 or 500 ISO BW 4x5 stuff of Fuji, I can only buy directly from Japan via Japan Exposures and maybe some other internationally operating webshop...

I really don't understand Fuji hasn't released some of the other instant film types outside Japan after the demise of Polaroid. There was some market then, but they made no effort at all to fill the gap... while it must have been a breeze since they DO distribute 4x5 100 ISO Color instant film here in the Netherlands...

Q.G. · Oct 25, 2009

Must be for the same reason Polaroid decided to stop: people use far less instant film than a few years ago.
Studios (the natural home of instant film) now look at computer screens, where a new image appears after every shot the photographers takes.

The market for Fuji must be small, even after Polaroid quitting. The costs of distributing the full range of products too much.

Which will also be - no doubt - why these products now are considered for discontinuation.

BetterSense · Oct 25, 2009

So, as I asked before, what instant films are still available?

aluk · Oct 25, 2009

BetterSense said:
So, as I asked before, what instant films are still available?

See the (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

IloveTLRs · Oct 25, 2009

From Fujifilm?

FP-100C (color) in regular size and 4x5
FP-100C Silk (color) in regular size
FP-3000B SUPER SPEEDY (B&W) - 4x5 and regular sizes

^ those are peel-apart films

They also make "Cheki" instant cameras. I believe a new model was recently released, so I'm guessing that that instant format will be around for a while at least. They look like this.

That's all I know about instant films.

BetterSense · Oct 25, 2009

Is that an exhaustive list of all instant films available then, or are there other companies making it?

If so, then it looks like there will be only one black and white instant film available in the world, the 3000 speed one?

Also what does "regular sized" mean?

aluk · Oct 26, 2009

Only Fuji currently make instant film, both the ones listed here and film for their instax system. You may have also noticed the postings here and elsewhere about the impossible project, which seeks to re-create something like Polaroid's integral film for the SX-70 or 600 series cameras. Yes, it appears that there will only be one bw instant film left, though as it is the Fuji 400 and 500 speed films were not widely distributed outside of Japan (if they were even exported at all). Regular size refers to 8.5x10.8 cm (3.25"x4.25") paper with a white border, giving an image area of 7.3x9.5cm.

DanielStone · Oct 26, 2009

I know that there are quite a few people in the scientific community who use the 3000 speed b/w film for research photographic purposes. One guy I used to sell it to used it on an electron microscope of all things. Yes, I guess polaroid back in the day when this microscope was built designed an instant film pack so they can proof what they saw through the scope. I never say how or what they were shooting exactly, except that he came in every month to two months and bought a case (60 boxes of 10sht packs). So they were using it a lot.

I think that there are also people (in the scientific community as well) that use it to shoot oscilloscope images, being that they need a quick film to capture the screen's image.

not sure on the latter part though. I seem to remember hearing that from the same guy though.

but what really irks ME is that I've been saving for a 4x5 Fuji Holder for some time now, with my meager can-collecting skills at my little bro's footie practice 2x a week. So far i'm at $150 saved. But then I go and find that Fuji wants to discontinue my favorite instant film (FP-100B), as well as in 4x5. Now I really wish the impossible project would get some 4x5 instant film research going

I'm down to my last full box of Type 54, and I'm not liking it

-Dan

DanielStone · Oct 26, 2009

ohh, I've heard of people putting ND gels into the opening on their Pola back, so if you were to have a 3-4 stop gel, you could shoot the film as if it was a 200-400 speed instant film. Good enough for studio.

anyone else heard of doing this before?

-Dan

BetterSense · Oct 26, 2009

I know that there are quite a few people in the scientific community who use the 3000 speed b/w film for research photographic purposes. One guy I used to sell it to used it on an electron microscope of all things. Yes, I guess polaroid back in the day when this microscope was built designed an instant film pack so they can proof what they saw through the scope. I never say how or what they were shooting exactly, except that he came in every month to two months and bought a case (60 boxes of 10sht packs). So they were using it a lot.

It used to wildly popular for many kinds of materials characterization tools because it allowed imaging without a darkroom. It used to be that you could express electron microscopy magnifications in terms of X such as 8500X or whatever, because everyone used polaroid film on their electron microscopes so there was a standard. Now, you have to electronically place a distance scale in the image itself for scale. Modern equipment has completely gone to CCDs and motion cameras at that, but when I was visiting the University of Toledo I spy'd a big box of type 55 polaroid film on the shelf. I asked about it and nobody knew what it was or whose it was, but I wasn't brave enough to ask if I could have it.

Tim Gray · Oct 26, 2009

DanielStone said:
I know that there are quite a few people in the scientific community who use the 3000 speed b/w film for research photographic purposes.

Yup, I know a couple people who use it for aligning/tuning lasers. It's better than the laser burn paper. My friend ordered a case of the ISO 3000 B&W pack film about 2 years ago. I wanted to steal some. haha.

They also use it for imaging x-ray pulses from wire pinches (fusion-type stuff).

I don't know what they are using now that Polaroid no longer makes the stuff.

namke · Oct 27, 2009

Reply from FujiFilm on 'Choose Film' Forum...

Posted today on the Choose Film forum:

Fujifilm scotches instant gossip

Fujifilm Professional has moved quickly to dispel rumours that the company is about to withdraw production of its popular black and white instant film.

Fujifilms Senior Product Manager for Professional Film, Russ Gunn, explained the announcement: It was brought to our attention that a number of websites were carrying news of the discontinuation of some of Fujifilms instant film. I would like to confirm that all current formats of FP-100B and FP-3000B black and white instant film and FP-100C colour instant film will remain in production and we have no plans to discontinue any of them.

Gunn continued: We remain fully committed to the continued support of photographers who appreciate the quality and flexibility of real film. Fujifilm runs a variety of marketing activities based around real film, including the Fujifilm Distinctions Awards, the Fujifilm Student Awards and our online resource for film users, Choose-film.com.

The full range of Fujifilm Professionals film stock is available to buy online via www.fujilab.co.uk - for further details on the range visit, www.fujifilm.co.uk/professional

Fujifilm (UK) Ltd

Hopefully that clears up that (at least in the UK)?

Tim Gray · Oct 27, 2009

So what about 400B? Haha.

Moopheus · Oct 27, 2009

Tim Gray said:
So what about 400B? Haha.

Fujifilm UK doesn't sell it, so it's not the Fujifilm UK guy's problem. Same goes for Fuji USA. You'll have to try to get an answer from Japan on that one, I guess.

John R. · Oct 27, 2009

Seems to me if anybody knows the facts it would be the Senior Product Manager for Professional Film Russ Gunn as stated in Namke's post. I have little faith in comments from a low level employee in Japan who may be simply spreading corporate rumor or simply are not being accurate in the facts. When management makes announcements, that's when you listen. I highly doubt these B/W films are going anywhere, they have a lock on the market.

Fujifilm to discontiue FP-100B and 400B instant films (in Japanese market)

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