Fujifilm Announces Price Increase

[RattyMouse]

Most of those brands dont have the marketing presence like Fuji. When you walk into a local camera store, do you ever see Adox, Foma or clayton products?

I have been in stores that sell NOTHING but film and have never seen a roll of Adox, Foma, or Clayton (?) film.

Not once.

 

[AgX]

Clayton does not make film, but processing chemicals. (Henning's reply, as you yourself hinted at Fuji chemicals).

I hardly can remember ever having seen Kodak chemicals on the shelf. Does that mean they are not worth it?

 

[RattyMouse]

That is not the problem. Selling in reasonable quantities is the problem. With "a few pallets" you have much more work than profit. Makes no sense for a big company (Fuji made more than 2 billion (!!) dollars last fiscal year with silver-halide products; that is much more than all other photo film/paper/chemistry companies together).
Developers and fixers from all of the other brands are extremely cheap and excellent. Fuji would be on the same level, but not better.
Why should someone who is using e.g. Rodinal, D76, FX-39, XTOL, ID-11, HC-110, HRX, Finol etc. for years, and is very satiesfied, give up on them and use Fuji developers he never heard of instead?
That will not happen. And Fuji knows that.

Best regards,
Henning

Your excuse above justifies Fuji obsoleting all their films. Every excuse you give could easily apply to their films. Really why should they bother?

I'll tell you why, because it is in their heritage.

I'll bet that fuji's developers are every bit as good as Kodak's and far far better than the tiny mom and pop developers.

 

[mehguy]

I have been in stores that sell NOTHING but film and have never seen a roll of Adox, Foma, or Clayton (?) film.

Not once.

Yes, this is what Im trying to say. ANY camera store you are bound to find some fuji stuff.

 

[Ai Print]

Over the years I have made informed decisions on what to use and buy to do my black and white work based on recommendations from peers, mentors and sites like this one. This is the very first time I can remember hearing about Fuji black and white products outside of their films which have typically been very good, I am a regular user of Acros for example.

And I only really order supplies from either Freestyle or B&H as as a means to simplify my tax needs. You learn something new every day I guess....sorry to hear this is going to affect those who like to use the product.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Every APUG member should be required to go out and buy a case for Fuji paper, even if they do not use color film! We cannot take this laying down!

 

[RattyMouse]

You should study the history of the industry.

You should learn about Super Prodol.

 

[Henning Serger]

Most of those brands dont have the marketing presence like Fuji. When you walk into a local camera store, do you ever see Adox, Foma or clayton products?

Well, Adox and Foma, yes. Both available in local stores I use.
Concerning marketing:
Have you ever seen significant marketing activities for BW chemistry in the last years?
The market is (currently yet) too small to generate enough profit to finance marketing activities. And as BW shooters are extremely loyal to the developers they are using for years, a significant marketing effect would be at least questionable. Probably there could only be an effect on beginners.
If you have a marketing budget, you always have to decide in which segment your investment will have the strongest effect. Where could an ROI be possible?
In the case of Fuji: Spending a marketing budget on film would make much more sense than spending the money on BW chemistry marketing.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Your excuse above justifies Fuji obsoleting all their films.

No, not at all. You totally missed the point.
With BW chemistry they would only offer a "me too" product on the same quality level in an already completely over-flooded and over-saturated market with extremely hard competition. That is not attractive at all.
It makes much more sense to concentrate on products with an "Alleinstellungsmerkmal". AFAIK there is no direct translation for this very precise German term (sometimes even the German language can be wonderful....). I try to explain it:
"A product with unique characteristics, which can't be offered by other products".
In the case of Fuji: Their films.
Provia 100F, Velvia 50 and 100: Film icons. No other is offering such unique, outstanding quality.
Provia 100F: Only color film on the market with no Schwarzschild effect up to two minutes.
Superia 200, 400, 800, 1600: The amateur negative films on the market with the best detail rendition (highest resolution, finest grain, best sharpness).
Superia 1600: Only ISO 1600/33° speed film on the market.
Pro 160NS, Pro 400H, Superia 800 and 1600: Only films on the market with 4th colour layer technology.
Acros 100: Only BW film on the market with no Schwarzschild effect up to two minutes.
And so on......there are some more aspects where Fujifilm is technology leader and surpassing the competition.

Economically it makes much more sense to concentrate their limited capital / time / resources / marketing budget / distribution efforts on promoting their top products. The products with "Alleinstellungsmerkmalen".

Best regards,
Henning

 

[RattyMouse]

No, not at all. You totally missed the point.
With BW chemistry they would only offer a "me too" product on the same quality level in an already completely over-flooded and over-saturated market with extremely hard competition. That is not attractive at all.

Fujifilm developers are not recent creations. They are pretty old and so are not "me too". Several of them are ultra fine grained and again, the cost is extremely low.

It makes much more sense to concentrate on products with an "Alleinstellungsmerkmal". AFAIK there is no direct translation for this very precise German term (sometimes even the German language can be wonderful....). I try to explain it:
"A product with unique characteristics, which can't be offered by other products".
In the case of Fuji: Their films.
Provia 100F, Velvia 50 and 100: Film icons. No other is offering such unique, outstanding quality.
Provia 100F: Only color film on the market with no Schwarzschild effect up to two minutes.
Superia 200, 400, 800, 1600: The amateur negative films on the market with the best detail rendition (highest resolution, finest grain, best sharpness).
Superia 1600: Only ISO 1600/33° speed film on the market.
Pro 160NS, Pro 400H, Superia 800 and 1600: Only films on the market with 4th colour layer technology.
Acros 100: Only BW film on the market with no Schwarzschild effect up to two minutes.
And so on......there are some more aspects where Fujifilm is technology leader and surpassing the competition.

Economically it makes much more sense to concentrate their limited capital / time / resources / marketing budget / distribution efforts on promoting their top products. The products with "Alleinstellungsmerkmalen".

Best regards,
Henning

As you stated earlier, Fujifilm is a massive company and so is not resource limited for trivial items like this. They self limit themselves for odd Asian reasons. Most Japanese companies do this. Why do they sell 160NS and Natura 1600 in Japan and not the rest of the world? Who knows. Why do they sell Superia 400 in 120 size in the UK but not in Japan? Bizarre.

I've used Super Prodol developer and it would be my primary chemical if it were freely available. The grain control is simply incredible.

 

[Henning Serger]

Fujifilm developers are not recent creations. They are pretty old and so are not "me too". Several of them are ultra fine grained and again, the cost is extremely low.

Wether a developer formula is old or new is irrelevant for 99% of the photographers. Photographers are interested in the results, not in the date the formula was designed.
And there are lots of different developers on the market which deliver both ultra fine grain and low costs. And therefore the Fuji developers would indeed be "me too" products in the western markets.
And as the costs for BW developers are generally extremely low, being only a negligible part in the overall costs of film photography, low cost is no "Alleinstellungsmerkmal" for Fuji.

As you stated earlier, Fujifilm is a massive company and so is not resource limited for trivial items like this.

Of course they are: Relative high distribution costs in relation to sales volume. Because of the reasons I've explanind in my posts above. Investing in other areas gives much higher ROI.

They self limit themselves for odd Asian reasons. Most Japanese companies do this. Why do they sell 160NS and Natura 1600 in Japan and not the rest of the world? Who knows. Why do they sell Superia 400 in 120 size in the UK but not in Japan? Bizarre.

I can buy both Pro 160NS and Superia 1600 (= Natura 1600) here in Europe. Why are they not offered anymore in some other markets? Officially because in these markets demand decreased to a much too low level. Import is not cost efficient anymore.
Superia 400 120: Production has generelly stopped some time ago. If you can still find it somewhere, then probably in markets with lower demand for it with slower stock depleting speed.

There is certainly a lot what could Fuji do in a different and better way (same is valid for both Kodak's). I've lots of ideas. But that would definitely go much too far for this thread, leaving the original topic.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[cmacd123]

many places have labelling requirements for chemical products. you may have noticed that many darkroom chemical products have the dashed bordered info box and warnings in English and French that is required by the Canadian WHMIS system. (Workplace Hazardous Materials Information System) when that came out Paterson FX series developers disappeared from the Canadian market. The fact that it appears on products sold in other markets it an example of firms trying to get as large a production run as possible. for anyone to sell in North America, they would have to meet the US (and Canadian) requirements.

 

[AgX]

But adding a warning sticker by either Paterson or their importer likely would not be a big deal.

 

[cmacd123]

But adding a warning sticker by either Paterson or their importer likely would not be a big deal.

Has to be part of the Label, non removable, in both English and French. Fairly minor requirement in the scheme of things but multiply that by the rules in several countries. When the rules first came out there was a phase in period where the maker could use an over label. and I can buy stuff myself without a hastle aslong as it is for my own use, and I am not using it commercially. (even there I could have a chemist make up a "workplace label")

 

[mshchem]

They are also making BW paper, e.g.:
http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/film-analog/darkroom/printing-paper/?features_hash=3-1

But RA-4 silver-halide colour paper is of course by far their biggest market.
The whole worldwide BW paper market is a very small niche market compared to the RA-4 market.

Best regards,
Henning

Fujibro sounds interesting. Only problem I see is us Americans would have a hard time fitting 10 x 8 inch paper into an 8 x 10 inch developing tray
Best Regards Mike

 

[cmacd123]

Fujibro sounds interesting. Only problem I see is us Americans would have a hard time fitting 10 x 8 inch paper into an 8 x 10 inch developing tray
Best Regards Mike

10 X 8 seems to be a popular size in Europe, I guess they do more portraits there.

 

[mooseontheloose]

Fujibro sounds interesting. Only problem I see is us Americans would have a hard time fitting 10 x 8 inch paper into an 8 x 10 inch developing tray
Best Regards Mike

10 X 8 seems to be a popular size in Europe, I guess they do more portraits there.

Do you mean 10x12? 10x8 is just 8x10 by another name, I imagine that if you develop 8x10 in an 8x10 tray, then 10x8 shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I rarely develop paper in its equivalent size tray - I prefer a little extra room, especially for lith: 5x7 in 8x10 tray, 8x10 in 9.5x12 tray, 9.5x12 in 11x14, etc.

 

[mshchem]

Do you mean 10x12? 10x8 is just 8x10 by another name, I imagine that if you develop 8x10 in an 8x10 tray, then 10x8 shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I rarely develop paper in its equivalent size tray - I prefer a little extra room, especially for lith: 5x7 in 8x10 tray, 8x10 in 9.5x12 tray, 9.5x12 in 11x14, etc.

I'm sorry I was trying to joke. I don't know why but I've noticed Americans put the smaller dimension first 4x5, 8x10 etc. Where it seems in many parts of the world it's 5x4, etc.
Yes I think even most of us over here could figure it out
Best Regards Mike