Fuji Velvia 100, Jobo 2500 and Kodak E6 5 liter kit

Kino · Dec 7, 2007

Wow,

I knew it wasn't going to be wonderful imagery, due to the fact that I was limited to a single strobe and taking shots in near darkness, but the results were really ugly.

The attached scan is one of the BETTER images on the first roll...

I shot Velvia 100 with my Kiev 88 and a Metered Strobe with diffusion (Vivitar 286 clone) at the rated 100 ASA and it looks horrible when processed in the Kodak E6 chemistry @ 6:30 for the first developer.

I know this camera combo works, because I had been shooting Kodak Portra NC 160 prior to this and got acceptable exposures (should have stuck with the color neg, but ...)

Now I have 4 more rolls to process and try to salvage.

Wondering if I should push the stuff 1 or 2 stops or just live with the 2 or 3 marginally acceptable shots per roll that happen with normal processing?

If I push a stop, would I loose the shots that are near correct?

tim_walls · Dec 7, 2007

Kino said:
Wow,

I knew it wasn't going to be wonderful imagery, due to the fact that I was limited to a single strobe and taking shots in near darkness, but the results were really ugly.

The attached scan is one of the BETTER images on the first roll...

I shot Velvia 100 with my Kiev 88 and a Metered Strobe with diffusion (Vivitar 286 clone) at the rated 100 ASA and it looks horrible when processed in the Kodak E6 chemistry @ 6:30 for the first developer.

I know this camera combo works, because I had been shooting Kodak Portra NC 160 prior to this and got acceptable exposures (should have stuck with the color neg, but ...)

Now I have 4 more rolls to process and try to salvage.

Wondering if I should push the stuff 1 or 2 stops or just live with the 2 or 3 marginally acceptable shots per roll that happen with normal processing?

If I push a stop, would I loose the shots that are near correct?

I'm the farthest thing from an expert money can buy, but...

Velvia 100 performs pretty much at its rated speed, in my limited experience (unlike Velvia 50, which I shoot as 40.)

What are you using to judge the slides? The shadow tones in Velvia (certainly V50) tend to be very dense; I've never, ever managed to get a satisfactory scan out of Velvia as compared to when viewed with a good old fashioned projector. Kodak Ektachrome films I find much more 'scannable' than any of Fuji's offerings. That said, in general, I find an underexposed shot more rescuable than an overexposed one - once the highlights are blown there's nothing to retrieve but film base; if the shadows are muddy there is at least something there to rescue.

As a general rule though, I understand slide film is going to have significantly less exposure latitude than colour negative (I've never really shot colour neg in anger so I'm taking this as accepted wisdom) - if you're shooting contrasty subjects, you may just have to decide whether you want the shadows or the highlights and accept you're not going to get the whole range in (or even things up with lighting or filters.)

Oh, one other thing - I use the Kodak kit chemistry all the time, and have never had any problems with it, so I doubt that's part of your problem.

Lopaka · Dec 7, 2007

Mine seems to work fine with this combination, but I run the first developer at 7:30 per JOBO's own tests. I downloaded some of their papers before they closed up shop here in Ann Arbor, but it's a lot of pages to go through. If I run across the reference I'll post it.

Bob

Kino · Dec 7, 2007

Thanks everyone; I suspect it is a matter of tuning the time in chemistry. Both the film stock and chemistry are fresh, the film was exposed last week and held in refrigeration both before and after exposure.

The scan is not too representative of the actual film as the scanner compensated with the auto settings; the gamma of the slide is pretty brutal and saturation is over the top.

I ran across some really contradictory information between my Jobo manual and the Kodak instruction manuals -- the Jobo literature said something about mixing the Kodak reversal bath to 60% strength, which I did not as it is at least 10 years old and the Kodak Kit Instructions had been updated recently.

No mention anywhere I could find of a starting time for Fuji, so I tried 6:30.

Next roll (I do have to go a head and get it processed), I will try 7:30 and see how that fairs.

Thanks for the tips.

tim_walls · Dec 8, 2007

Let us know how that goes! 7:30 sounds scarily long to me but I haven't shot Velvia for quite a while, so if that works out for you I might have to do some trials myself that way.

Richard Harris · Dec 8, 2007

I process fuji velvia 100F in my jobo. I give the first developer 7mins for Fuji, 6:30 for Kodak. I have the tempering bath at 38.7C and the chemicals at 38.2C I observe this very closely. If you are using a CPE processor then beware of temperature stratification of the water bath. The temp at different parts of the bath can be significantly different and therefore temperature can vary widely during processing. I use a small aquarium pump to circulate the water and a rheostat to keep the heater on at a reduced voltage. Your results will improve and you will be able to modify your exposure and or development as you gain experience. When you find something that works for you, then stick to it like glue. Good Luck!

JBish130 · Dec 8, 2007

I process in a Combi-plan using the bathtub half full of water at the correct temperature. That volume of water will cool slowly, staying in spec the entire time.

I've processed lots of Ektachrome, and Sensia, a good bit of Provia, and some Velvia. I use the Arista E6 kits from FreeStyle. The only adjustments I make is with the first developer based on the amount of film processed. This, as with the rest of the procedure, is all straight by the book. I do not deviate from the printed instructions anywhere at anytime.

Results are always very good, at least as good as I get when sending it out. If there is a problem, it is always with the narrow lattitude reflecting poor exposure.

I've had good results pushing or pulling 1 - 2 stops. Anything exceeding that has always left me with inferior results.

I would think, that with your modern equipment, if you stuck to the proper procedure the only problems you should see would be with exposure.

radiantdarkroom · Dec 8, 2007

You still should dilute the Reversal bath 60% and process most Fuji films for 7min in first to get correct density. This was what I found in my ATL 1000.

Good luck, I noticed that your shooting set stills, I think the norm was to shoot Kodak 320T E6 film and push the film 1 or 2 stops to get good shutter speed and Depth of Field. Stay away from flash on set, that really pisses off the cinematographer.

Kino · Dec 8, 2007

Wow, thanks everyone for the input! That at least puts my mind at ease on the basic film process.

I started to process another roll last night, but something made me hold off...

I went back and studied everything and came to the conclusion that I should have had an assistant with a slaved strobe running around giving me a backlight and/or a kicker on the subject so the resulting shots don't look like I was shooting in a coal sack.

Just for completeness sake, I run a Jobo 2300 and use the 100F setting.

Radiantdarkroom; does the 60% dilution of the reversal developer helps with the contrast issues due to continuous agitation of the ATL?

Yes, they were stills of a shoot I was called at the last second to shoot -- had to use what film I had on hand, but thanks for the tip about 320T; I'll have to buy a few boxes to have on hand. Due to film speed, I had to use a flash, but the set had a protocol, you yelled "flashing" prior to taking an exposure and that seemed to work OK, but of course, it ruled-out shots during a take. Heck, unless it was MOS, my Kiev's mirror slap would have ruined any take anyway!

BTW; that is the RED camera in the shot. Probably the first feature in Ohio shot on that camera.

Lopaka · Dec 8, 2007

Here are a couple of JOBO articles on E-6. Please note that due to the age of the articles, it is necessary to review the most current EK publications and make updates to the info as needed. Also posted is EK's latest instructions for rotary processing.

Bob

Kino · Dec 9, 2007

Ah, thank you, Lopaka! I had the EK stuff, but not the JOBO -- Many thanks.

I tried 7 min with the 60% reversal developer and over a light box, I see a noticeable improvement; shadows opened up a lot and more detail, but they are still pretty "scan-proof".

I am still trying to find a way to get a reasonable scan of the results, no luck so far. Think the Dmax, contrast range and saturation are going to get the best of my poor Epson 4990. Don't think it can pull it off...

OK, so I am going to take a roll out and shoot a test in more favorable conditions; i.e., outside with a Grey card and chip chart. Will try to make a "scanable" image.

*EDIT*

OK, here's the best I can do. Time for bed.

Kino · Dec 9, 2007

Or rather, I should have said, it was the best I can do with the current batch of slides...

radiantdarkroom · Dec 9, 2007

You may want to get a dedicated film scanner, although your scans look a lot like the scans I would get on my old film scanner. A drum scanner really kicks, but rather expensive.

Kino · Dec 9, 2007

I think the moral of the story here is; "Night Shoot + Slide Film + Flash on Camera = Not so hot an idea".

Fuji Velvia 100, Jobo 2500 and Kodak E6 5 liter kit

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