Fuji Sensia R.I.P

benjiboy said:

Because you can choose an emulsion that has a colour saturation, contrast level and colour palate that's most suitable the task in hand .

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I have some photography planned for 35mm transparency and had planned on getting in some Sensia. However I think I'll keep to the pro films, partly due to being able to get stock as I need it.

Tom

railwayman3 said:

I could, and should have said that......and I have already corrected my original statement and said "sorry". I am also sorry that I am not perfect.

(Although it always amazes me that people actually rely on ANY information published on the Internet without checking.....)

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It's just that some of us might suffer heart attacks when reading this stuff....

Tom Kershaw said:

Apart from price, do you see any other advantages in Fuji Sensia or Kodak Elitechrome?

Tom

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I don't know about Elitechrome (though I may shortly be finding out!) but it's actually the lack of excessive saturation or naturalness that I liked about Sensia. All the stuff about "this film's like this and that film's good for that, etc." don't really cut any ice for me, as my slide film usage is when I'm out and about, usually on foot, and I'm a) not going to hump around various bodies loaded with different films and b) unlikely to shoot more than a few shots of one subject. Sensia was the General Motors of the film world (in more senses than one, as GM went phut!) as it offered colours I liked, a reasonable speed (I usually went for the 100ASA) and reasonable cost. I've been paying about 9GBP for 36 exposures with processing included, though as in my other recent post, I've become increasingly unhappy with the processing. Boots own brand film for a long time was AFAIK Sensia 200 and the mailer (as that was/is process paid) had Fuji Lab's address printed on it. When Fuji changed labs, i enquired and was told to keep sending the Boots branded film to the old address. The Boots brand material was a real bargain at about 7GBP for 36 exp inc processing. Boots have offered an 'own brand' slide film for as long as I can remember (my first ever colour film in 1970 was a Boots Colourslide) and it will be interesting to see what happens there.

Steve

IloveTLRs said:

On the contrary I've been amazed that Fuji still makes so many E-6 emulsions: Velvia, Sensia, Astia, Trebi, Provia and T64.

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I'm afraid that Trebi has been discontinued.....

...And T64....

Shame, I really liked Sensia, and it was dirt cheap. Looks like Elitechrome and Precisa is all I have left.

While I was not a fan/user, I do feel it's unfortunate that another slide film falls into our memory and out of the marketplace. As mention in this thread, Elite Chrome is a great film. Both 100 and 200 speed are very nice and the 200 speed can very comfortably be shot at EI 800 and push processed.

LunoLuno said:

I'm afraid that Trebi has been discontinued.....

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T64 I knew about, but not Trebi. Well, that sucks

I look at the discontinuance of Sensia films as a positive thing. It was a cheap consumer product only available in 35mm and I feel the film really had nothing special going for it except the price. If people loved it they would have bought it ...lots of it and Fuji would still be making it. Now hopefully those Sensia shooters will shoot on Provia and Velvia or Astia or any number of the reversal films out on the market. There is tons to choose from! I had a client in my lab yesterday and we were printing an ilfochrome print for him from a miss treated Sensia slide and I commented on how just recently Fuji has stopped making this product. well he was shocked and upset and said "oh no i loved that film it was cheap and wonderful" ....as the conversation progressed i came to learn he had not shot on this film type in almost 5 years!!! and two things came to mine. First was ...here is a man going for a film because it is cheap, and not because of its imaging qualities. yet he was spending thousands on ilfochrome prints from his cheap film! in the long run a few extra bucks for the fuji pro films is irrelevant. and secondly if he loved the film so much why hasnt be bought any in 5 years???

I say congratulations to Fuji. It must never be an easy decision to terminate a product but I think this is a good move as hopefully it will strengthen the sales of their professional film products.

I have no problem with film being discontinued if they aren't sold in adequate quantities, but I get increasingly suspicious that this whining about "due to lack of demand" and "due to slow sales" is a load of hog wash. I have no idea why film makers put so much effort into creating great films and then completely mess up the experience with their pathetic marketing and distribution chain. Examples?

• Some Fuji films are sold in continental Europe but not UK. Arguments are usually that films are sold in palettes and UK doesn't buy enough of a certain film type. Well, if sales numbers have dropped so much (and prices have gone up), why not change palette size? Why not ship a palette to some distributor in the EU, split it up and distribute smaller quantities to individual countries?
• As mentioned, it is mostly unclear which Fuji film is or is not discontinued. It's not very helpful if you go through all the data sheets on their site and pick some film just to discover that it's not available any more
• I recently went into a store which still has an excellent selection of film in all sizes, but this time they were almost out of stock on E100VS. The store owner told me he checks daily with the main distributor of Kodak films in Europe to see whether he can order fresh stock. As soon as he sees film in stock he buys as much as he gets. Yet, this distributor can't even tell him when that film will be available again.

Stephen Frizza said:

I look at the discontinuance of Sensia films as a positive thing. It was a cheap consumer product only available in 35mm and I feel the film really had nothing special going for it except the price. If people loved it they would have bought it ...lots of it and Fuji would still be making it. Now hopefully those Sensia shooters will shoot on Provia and Velvia or Astia or any number of the reversal films out on the market. There is tons to choose from! I had a client in my lab yesterday and we were printing an ilfochrome print for him from a miss treated Sensia slide and I commented on how just recently Fuji has stopped making this product. well he was shocked and upset and said "oh no i loved that film it was cheap and wonderful" ....as the conversation progressed i came to learn he had not shot on this film type in almost 5 years!!! and two things came to mine. First was ...here is a man going for a film because it is cheap, and not because of its imaging qualities. yet he was spending thousands on ilfochrome prints from his cheap film! in the long run a few extra bucks for the fuji pro films is irrelevant. and secondly if he loved the film so much why hasnt be bought any in 5 years???

I say congratulations to Fuji. It must never be an easy decision to terminate a product but I think this is a good move as hopefully it will strengthen the sales of their professional film products.

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How can any restriction of choice be a positive thing? If something suits someone because it is cheaper (though "less expensive" might be more apt these days), then good luck to them. "A few extra bucks" might be irrelevant for you, but for someone with limited funds it might equate to spending the same total sum of money on a smaller number of films, which does film sales no good at all. As for this move strengthening the sales of Fuji's professional products, I guess it won't do Kodak's film sales any harm either!
Steve

Steve Roberts said:

How can any restriction of choice be a positive thing? If something suits someone because it is cheaper (though "less expensive" might be more apt these days), then good luck to them. "A few extra bucks" might be irrelevant for you, but for someone with limited funds it might equate to spending the same total sum of money on a smaller number of films, which does film sales no good at all. As for this move strengthening the sales of Fuji's professional products, I guess it won't do Kodak's film sales any harm either!
Steve

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I think the point is that if one is to make prints from the film the extra 1.50 GBP per film doesn't increase total costs by a significant amount.

Tom

I heard rumors back in June, but I didn't completely believe them; But knowing the way how fuji "announced" they would discontinue.

It's bad, it's a great film for the price and the most avaliable here. Elitechrome is harder to find, and it usually scores higher prices. I planned to move on to this film after all Kodachrome is finished. I will have to move to Elitechrome or eventually the pro films.

Stephen Frizza said:

I look at the discontinuance of Sensia films as a positive thing. It was a cheap consumer product only available in 35mm and I feel the film really had nothing special going for it except the price. If people loved it they would have bought it ...lots of it and Fuji would still be making it. Now hopefully those Sensia shooters will shoot on Provia and Velvia or Astia or any number of the reversal films out on the market. There is tons to choose from! I had a client in my lab yesterday and we were printing an ilfochrome print for him from a miss treated Sensia slide and I commented on how just recently Fuji has stopped making this product. well he was shocked and upset and said "oh no i loved that film it was cheap and wonderful" ....as the conversation progressed i came to learn he had not shot on this film type in almost 5 years!!! and two things came to mine. First was ...here is a man going for a film because it is cheap, and not because of its imaging qualities. yet he was spending thousands on ilfochrome prints from his cheap film! in the long run a few extra bucks for the fuji pro films is irrelevant. and secondly if he loved the film so much why hasnt be bought any in 5 years???

I say congratulations to Fuji. It must never be an easy decision to terminate a product but I think this is a good move as hopefully it will strengthen the sales of their professional film products.

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Let us just hope this is the case. I think the discontinuance speaks to an almost nonexistent amateur market for analog photo products. It sure as heck makes shooting 35mm transparencies significantly more expensive for me. I will miss the film.

Was aways a Provia man myself in the days I shot slides I never really trusted Fuji's own processing

The Fuji case has much more to it than just "almost nonexistent amateur market" or "no one buys their neg films" or "no one buys Sensia".

To me, it looks like Fuji is in chaotic state because of the current Japanese economical state. Look at the Toyota.

If we compare, it looks to me that Kodak is really discontinuing products that are used much less than their other products, making a decision based on sales number to protect the remaining products. This is how things work in a somewhat healthy business model.

On the other hand, I'm sure Sensia had quite a bit of users. I can't back this up with any evidence, as no one here can. Only Fuji could really know.

Fuji has made many contradictory statements. They have reported increase in film sales and increasing commitment to film, which cannot be seen in the recent activities concerning the discontinuation of almost half of their products in a short time.

Then again, as I have read in many sources, heard here at APUG and seen by myself, Fuji has tremendous problems in their supply chain. Many if not most Fuji films in Europe were all sold out this winter, and this happens every now and then. So, even if you wanted to buy Fuji film, it's hard to buy because 1) you cannot know if this product is still made or discontinued, 2) if it's made, it may not be imported to where you live, or even the whole continent, or even the whole world exluding Japan!, 3) even if it's imported, it may be sold out because it may be imported much less than the demand(!)

As said by others, the "pallet" thing is pure bullshit. Everyone knows that importing stuff today is cheap if done right. It's a matter of bureaucracy, and Fuji's current exporting scheme is a pure example of insane bureaucracy which will cost Fuji's life if something is not done soon. In reality, there is no minimum limit for export, especially for film which doesn't expire quickly like food. This is one of the easiest problems. The fact Fuji cannot solve it, shows that they don't have the time to do it, and if a company doesn't have time to sell it's products in a tight situation, what will be its destiny? In a tight situation, the only sustainable way to get some money is to sell your products aggressively! Fuji is doing the opposite.

All in all, there seems to be more demand for Fuji products than there is supply! In a healthy business situation, this is a sign of a great success, but in this case it's a sign of very dangerous situation inside Fuji. If they cannot sell their products even when there is demand, what will happen to them?

We are now seeing a series of consequences to these internal business/marketing problems. What it looks to me, products that are not niche products at all, gets discontinued randomly as stock / master roll runs out and there is no funds to continue that product in question. It's completely different than to make calm decisions based on sales numbers.

Oh I will miss my pack of 10 sensia100 I'm buying every spring to cover the holiday season snapshots!

Dreadfull news.

It'll be stocking some 10 packs in the freeze for the coming seasons and switch to elitechrome 100 now. I'll buy it more often, you got the signal Kodak,...got it...yes...?

Or does anyone know another E6 alternative for 4€/roll?

...sigh...

rhmimac
PS Fuji, please don't take my Superia 200 for 2€/roll away.

Stephen Frizza said:

I look at the discontinuance of Sensia films as a positive thing. It was a cheap consumer product only available in 35mm and I feel the film really had nothing special going for it except the price. If people loved it they would have bought it ...lots of it and Fuji would still be making it. Now hopefully those Sensia shooters will shoot on Provia and Velvia or Astia or any number of the reversal films out on the market. There is tons to choose from! I had a client in my lab yesterday and we were printing an ilfochrome print for him from a miss treated Sensia slide and I commented on how just recently Fuji has stopped making this product. well he was shocked and upset and said "oh no i loved that film it was cheap and wonderful" ....as the conversation progressed i came to learn he had not shot on this film type in almost 5 years!!! and two things came to mine. First was ...here is a man going for a film because it is cheap, and not because of its imaging qualities. yet he was spending thousands on ilfochrome prints from his cheap film! in the long run a few extra bucks for the fuji pro films is irrelevant. and secondly if he loved the film so much why hasnt be bought any in 5 years???

I say congratulations to Fuji. It must never be an easy decision to terminate a product but I think this is a good move as hopefully it will strengthen the sales of their professional film products.

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I see this in the opposite light. If I have $15 in my pocket, I can buy 3 rolls of Sensia, or 2 rolls of Provia. When you multiply that out, that means that Fuji sells 11,666 fewer rolls per master roll of 35,000. Of course, if people weren't buying it anyway, the point is moot. However, I have a feeling that this is why Elite Chrome is still being made, despite several rounds of film cuts.

I'm just wondering what Boots is going to do about their rebranded version of Sensia. . .

On the plus side, if they decide to throw in the towel with slides, they might sell off their stock cheaply.

On the down side however, if they decide to throw in the towel they might sell off their stock permanently.

rhmimac said:

Or does anyone know another E6 alternative for 4€/roll?

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After a search through www I got this as a "must try" on the list:
Rollei CR200 digibase which is produced in the AGFA plant in Mortsel, Belgium, just 10 from my hometown.

When I can get hold of it for reasonable price it's a candidate for becoming my standard do it all E6 film.

Anyone having good or bad experiences with it so far?

Life looks a little more sunny after this discovery.

rhmimac

This thread had a number of odd comments.

- Product lines always evolve and change. The loss of a particular product is hardly a bellwether of some cosmic truth. We have seen numerous new formulations from both Kodak and Fuji in the past decade. I know many are bewailing the loss of Kodachrome, but be honest - its time was past long ago.

- Unless Fuji had a different approach than Kodak (doubtful), there is no "consumer film" that is a different product from a pro film. Consumer films were just a "stabilized" (slightly aged) and repackaged version of some pro formulation. That means any company that sold both a consumer and a pro film was competing with itself. Sensia's loss is probably an extension to the changes in Provia and Astia. Fuji had a rather bewildering array of product offering, and needed to rationalize it.

- Elitechrome has become harder to find, because Kodak is doing the same thing. Elitechrome is G, and Elitechrome Extra Color is VS (interestingly enough, the packaging of Extra Color describes it as a professional film). Supporting two different packaging and price schemes may have made sense at one time, but not any longer. Even at $20 for film and processing, that is still pretty cheap for thirty seven framed, original works of art.

thuggins said:

- Unless Fuji had a different approach than Kodak (doubtful), there is no "consumer film" that is a different product from a pro film. Consumer films were just a "stabilized" (slightly aged) and repackaged version of some pro formulation. That means any company that sold both a consumer and a pro film was competing with itself. Sensia's loss is probably an extension to the changes in Provia and Astia. Fuji had a rather bewildering array of product offering, and needed to rationalize it.

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There is a mixed degree of truth to that. Kodak's consumer films are "shelf-stabilized", but that happens with the addition of chemicals or layers to the emulsion. This results in a slightly different color balance, as well as a separate master roll having to be coated for professional and consumer films. The "aging" process is a common misconception.

Besides, I have never had a problem finding Elite Chrome. B&H, Adorama, Freestyle, and Dwayne's all carry it.

thuggins said:

- Unless Fuji had a different approach than Kodak (doubtful), there is no "consumer film" that is a different product from a pro film. Consumer films were just a "stabilized" (slightly aged) and repackaged version of some pro formulation.

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Urban legend, which may have some sort of justification in history but does not hold very well today or at all especially in this case. If you looked into the facts (start by reading the product range and data sheets) instead of legends...

Sensia 100, 200 and 400 were completely their own emulsions. AFAIK, the current Sensia 100 (emulsion code RA) was an "amateur version" of a previous version of Astia 100F -- Astia 100 (RAP - probably as in Reversal Astia Pro). Current Astia 100F had emulsion code of RAPF.

OTOH, The former Sensia 100 (RP) was an "amateur version" of Provia 100 (RPP). As the previous version of Astia was not made in years, that fact alone made Sensia 100 a completely different product, however with somewhat similar characteristics with Astia 100F. In addition, there's no place for argument about Sensia 200 and Sensia 400. If you want to argue otherwise, please show a 200 speed pro film in Fuji E6 range. They are definitely products on their own.

If Astia 100F is discontinued in 35mm, as said by some sources (can't find any now, which is a good sign, but at least it's not available in most stores anymore), then, as said before, we have lost the only normal-contrast normal-color Fuji slide film in 35mm. I hope the rumors are wrong and Astia 100F will be available in the future, too. It's a bit expensive compared to Sensia but that's not a problem. 36 exposures of very good quality slides for projection should be valued higher than 3€.

Interesting fact is, according to the Fuji's Japanese website, Sensia is not listed as discontinued.

See http://fujifilm.jp/personal/film/reversal/index.html . Under Trebi 100C they say 本製品は、生産終了いたしました, seisan shuuryou itashimashita, product has been discontinued. But under Sensia III, there is no such remark.

Thank you for the clear summary of the Sensia reversal film hrst.
You give me some hope with the japanese link, although it's clear that when Fuji UK gets the message and spreads it that discontinuation is not far away there is something to worry about. Or is it the same story as for Reala 135, where the UK seems the only country where it's unavailable due to commercial decissions. I bought Reala 2 weeks ago in my local shop, no problem at all.
I will try the Rollei digibase CR200 in orer to have an alternative for my cheapest neutral colored normal contrast reversal film

rhmimac