Fuji Kills Fujicolor Pro 800z (maybe)

2F/2F · Jul 13, 2009

keithwms said:
Uh oh, here we go

I am just saying that I wish they would make Portra 800 as good in foul-colored lighting as Pro 800Z, rather than give me another medium-speed film to choose from. There are so many already, and to me, the new one is the least likely to be used of all of them. I use Kodak products. I use Fuji and Ilford products too. I use Portra 800 for shooting in low natural light, and Pro 800Z for shooting in low artificial light. I think it handles the weird colors of various artificial lights unfiltered much better than Portra 800. My point is that Portra 800 needs some work before it can be a total replacement for Pro 800Z. They are both excellent films...but only really alike in terms of ISO rating.

Chazzy · Jul 13, 2009

Speaking of Portra 800, was it updated along with the other Portra films recently? I'm very impressed with Portra 400 NC.

ajuk · Jul 13, 2009

By recently do you mean 2 years ago?

I think this is the first time I have seen the discontinuation of a film I actually use, be it very rarely as I had stated in other thread I had problems fathoming why the 800 speed portrait films were not tungsten balanced being that they are designed for indoors at night, no?

Anyway it was the first pro 800 colour neg film I used and seeing that Portra 800 has had about 2 revisions in the time since this was release I thought it would be much better, but I couldn't see much to separate them, so even though I use Portra nearly always at 160 and 400 speeds, I use this the most at 800.

E76 said:
A long time, but not that long. Seeing as it's a high speed film, it's very likely that it will fog as a result of background radiation within several years.

Would an airport X-ray bag help that?

fLOVE · Jul 14, 2009

Anything we can do to lobby Fuji to keep it around? I just discovered the stuff in the past like 3 months. I was mostly B&W for a while, but now I'm trying to hone some color and the Fuji's 400H and 800Z are so far what I'm liking best, and they have to go and pull it from me? I mean, does the 1600 Fujicolor press sell better than this? -f

Sirius Glass · Jul 14, 2009

fLOVE said:
Anything we can do to lobby Fuji to keep it around? I just discovered the stuff in the past like 3 months. I was mostly B&W for a while, but now I'm trying to hone some color and the Fuji's 400H and 800Z are so far what I'm liking best, and they have to go and pull it from me? I mean, does the 1600 Fujicolor press sell better than this? -f

fLOVE, since you are new here, please allow me to explain how the discontinuation of a film is handled at APUG.

Following the norm set here when Kodak drops a film:

Gripe about the film loss.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.
Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.
Post that the other film companies are righteous.
Start a petition to keep the film in production.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
Start a thread about how the manufacture continue producing the film if they really knew the film business.
Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.
Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.
Post that the other film companies are righteous.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
PE and a few others defend the manufacturer and explain the film manufacturing process.
Start a thread to prepay for the next master roll.
PE points out how prepaying for the next master roll will not cut it.
Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.
Post that the other film companies are righteous.
Start a "Discontinued Film Project" to accelerate the selling off of the remaining film stocks.
Start thread bemoaning the high price of the discontinued film on evil-bay.
Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.
Post that the other film companies are righteous.

Ok, now that you have the process please join in at the appropriate point.

Steve

:munch::munch::munch::munch::munch:

Matt5791 · Jul 14, 2009

fLOVE said:
Anything we can do to lobby Fuji to keep it around? I just discovered the stuff in the past like 3 months. I was mostly B&W for a while, but now I'm trying to hone some color and the Fuji's 400H and 800Z are so far what I'm liking best, and they have to go and pull it from me? I mean, does the 1600 Fujicolor press sell better than this? -f

Try lobbying them - it worked with Single8 film - they announced it was being axed, and that they were closing the lab required to process this emulsion, but then did a U-Turn and got a new person into the lab to be trained by the outgoing, retiring, lab manager, and continued to make the film.

Matt

Simplicius · Jul 14, 2009

I've only shot a few rolls of this Fuji Pro 800Z in MF. and compared it to Portra using the same camera on the same day. I know it is entirely subjective but the Fuji product seems to work better in the dull and overcast grey light we get consistently in Ireland. The tones and separation are more vibrant.

Thomas Wilson · Jul 14, 2009

Why don't you lobby President Obama. He can do to the film industry what he is doing to the auto industry, usurp control and force them to manufacture products that few customers want, and make no profits for the shareholders.

Michael W · Jul 14, 2009

Matt5791 said:
Try lobbying them - it worked with Single8 film - they announced it was being axed, and that they were closing the lab required to process this emulsion, but then did a U-Turn and got a new person into the lab to be trained by the outgoing, retiring, lab manager, and continued to make the film.

Matt

re Single 8, Fuji did delay the discontinuation but in June '09 announced these end dates

Fujichrome R25N - last shipment March 2012
Fujichrome RT200N - last shipment May 2010

Developing service available until September 2013

Photo Engineer · Jul 14, 2009

Steve;

I loved your "flow chart".

I'll try to do my best to chime in where appropriate.

PE

Vonder · Jul 14, 2009

As much as we'd like to feel that we have some influence on these matters, we simply don't. Digital is a big giant metal wheel and it's slowly grinding away. One by one the film choices disappear. One by one the old film cameras, especially the electronic pieces of junk the market was flooded with up to about year 2000, will die, or be absorbed into a collection and seldom be used.

Maybe the real question isn't even whether film manufacturing will drop to zero, its whether there will be any working cameras around. Even the tanks like the Canon T-90 and EOS-1 will eventually wear out.

Sirius Glass · Jul 14, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Steve;

I loved your "flow chart".

I'll try to do my best to chime in where appropriate.

PE

Glad to be of service.

I am to please; your aim will help.

Steve

nickrapak · Jul 14, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
Following the norm set here when Kodak drops a film:

Gripe about the film loss.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.

Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.

Post that the other film companies are righteous.

Start a petition to keep the film in production.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

Start a thread about how the manufacture continue producing the film if they really knew the film business.

Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.

Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.

Post that the other film companies are righteous.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

PE and a few others defend the manufacturer and explain the film manufacturing process.

Start a thread to prepay for the next master roll.

PE points out how prepaying for the next master roll will not cut it.

Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.

Post that the other film companies are righteous.

Start a "Discontinued Film Project" to accelerate the selling off of the remaining film stocks.

Start thread bemoaning the high price of the discontinued film on evil-bay.

Declare the film manufacturer the scum of the Earth.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

Threaten to boycott the manufacturer.

Post that the other film companies are righteous.

Ahh, but Steve, this is a Fuji film. Fuji follows a slightly different set of rules.

Gripe about the film loss.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
Declare that it was a necessary business decision.
Declare Kodak's equivalent inferior on all counts
Post that Fuji is still better than Kodak.
Start a petition to keep the film in production.
Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]
Some post about the double standard for Fuji and Kodak
Said people are immediately shot down
Declare Kodak the scum of the Earth for not making their films like Fuji's.
Post that Fuji deserves to be forgiven.
Repeat endlessly

Photo Engineer · Jul 14, 2009

I like both. Isn't there some way we can blend the two with no discrimination?

PE

Prest_400 · Jul 14, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
I like both. Isn't there some way we can blend the two with no discrimination?

PE

Now, if Ilford discontinued one of their films, what would be the order of the "events"?
I hope that doesn't happen, though.

Anon Ymous · Jul 14, 2009

Prest_400 said:
Now, if Ilford discontinued one of their films, what would be the order of the "events"?
I hope that doesn't happen, though.

Just replace "Fuji" with "Ilford" and that's all. And in case you wonder, bashing Fuji/Ilford wouldn't be fair either.

Anon Ymous · Jul 14, 2009

Oh, and instead of

"6. Start a petition to keep the film in production."

we would have

"6. Bombard Simon Galley's message box until production resumes."

mikebarger · Jul 14, 2009

In four days there are only about 67 posts, and a half dozen of those are poking fun at the system. Doesn't sound like it had much of a following or Fuji would have kept on reaping the profits.

Mike

Sirius Glass · Jul 14, 2009

nickrapak said:
Ahh, but Steve, this is a Fuji film. Fuji follows a slightly different set of rules.

Gripe about the film loss.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

Declare that it was a necessary business decision.

Declare Kodak's equivalent inferior on all counts

Post that Fuji is still better than Kodak.

Start a petition to keep the film in production.

Declare there is no substitute for the discontinued film. [Hint: that is why it was a popular product.]

Some post about the double standard for Fuji and Kodak

Said people are immediately shot down

Declare Kodak the scum of the Earth for not making their films like Fuji's.

Post that Fuji deserves to be forgiven.

Repeat endlessly

Appropriately and very accurately expanded.

And the follow additions about Ilford are also greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Steve

2F/2F · Jul 14, 2009

The reason I got so pissed at Kodak for so long is because they seemed to be making dumb decision after dumb decision, and discontinuing nearly ALL of the films I relied on in my shooting. I am not rolling in dough well enough to have stocked up a lifetime supply of the stuff I used (nor will I be able to do so with Pro 400H or T64, sadly). This is what caused my almost total switch to Ilford for b/w. Instead of trying to push film as the excellent medium that it is, Kodak seemingly folded over to the digital push, and seemed to abandon so much so quickly. The idea that companies must be ruled by the consumer's dollar, period, is sick to me.

...but Fuji did the same, discontinuing many films. Other companies went under entirely. No company is immune from my spite for discontinuing a beloved emulsion or making stupid business moves!

There is much that could be done by the remaining film companies to promote film use specifically...but it is not being done. If you are too lazy and cheap to try to save your own ass, what do you expect? They are both surviving on things other than still film. I wish they were smaller, privately-owned companies dedicated solely to photography, instead of weird corporate conglomerates with their hands in all sorts of fields.

It is really the rapid adoption of digital by consumer idiots and impatient clients that gets my goat. Everything else is just a redirection of that anger.

As for the qualities of Kodak's 800 and 64 tungsten vs. Fuji's, I prefer Fuji by leaps and bounds for both emulsions. Like I said, Kodak's are good, but I find Fuji's way better. If there are no other options, of course the Kodak will have to be used...though I wish they had the qualities of the Fuji. From my POV, improved 64 tungsten and Portra 800 would be 1000x more useful to me than new T-Max 400 and Ektar.

Sirius Glass · Jul 14, 2009

2F/2F, I understand how you feel and why. I just get tired of others bashing Kodak and giving everyone else a free pass.

Steve

Photo Engineer · Jul 14, 2009

Well, I would have to say that both Fuji and Kodak have made bad decisions!

Second, I would have to give Fuji the edge in reversal films and Kodak the edge in negative/postitive systems.

Third, I would add that we should all extend best wishes to the Fuji and Kodak employees who were faithful to film and have now lost their jobs. We should wish them well. Add to that the Ilford employees recently laid off.

PE

2F/2F · Jul 14, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Well, I would have to say that both Fuji and Kodak have made bad decisions!

Second, I would have to give Fuji the edge in reversal films and Kodak the edge in negative/postitive systems.

PE

Yes; they have.

As for the pos/neg film thing, that is very interesting, as I feel the opposite way.

For pro films, I love Kodak Portra in natural light or flash, I prefer Fujicolor Pro for an all-around neg. film that might be shot in all sorts of color temps. When you talk about consumer emulsions (which I use much of the time), I think Fuji's kill Kodak's. Reala and Superia have always looked way better than Gold to me; especially the fast films.

As for transparency films, I have always highly preferred Kodak's, except for the 64 tungsten film, for which I prefer Fuji by far, and Provia 400, which simply does not have a Kodak equivalent. This is a big part of the reason I started using other brands primarily. Kodak had an enormous and varied stable of outstanding transparency films. I used to love the excitement of picking the proper Ektachrome for the task at hand, as they were all good, and all somewhat special. Now the selection is relatively pitiful. I switched to Fuji transparency films looking for options, and discovered that they have some great films...but, with a few exceptions, I still prefer Kodak's few remaining emulsions. I have started using Kodak again, though I do like the Velvia 100F and Provia 400X very, very much. They have more character than Provia 100 to me. Provia 100 is an excellent film technically, and I shot a lot of stuff on it, pushed, pulled, etc., but always seemed the tiniest bit "clinical" to me.

Photo Engineer · Jul 14, 2009

2F;

Due to the big market in MP films, Kodak Neg-Pos R&D was always high priority and therefore this trickled down to the pro and then consumer neg-pos systems. OTOH, at Fuji, their priority seemed to be centered on E6 products. I cannot really say how they are doing. I have to rely on the pros I used to talk to and that helped develop the opinion I posted. That, along with many trade trials that I am aware of in both neg and pos systems.

I cannot disagree with you but I have been told otherwise and guided to the opinion I hold. But, things change over time and some of my POV is "frozen" at the time I retired, tempered by my own use of photo products since then.

PE

2F/2F · Jul 14, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
2F;

Due to the big market in MP films, Kodak Neg-Pos R&D was always high priority and therefore this trickled down to the pro and then consumer neg-pos systems. OTOH, at Fuji, their priority seemed to be centered on E6 products. I cannot really say how they are doing. I have to rely on the pros I used to talk to and that helped develop the opinion I posted. That, along with many trade trials that I am aware of in both neg and pos systems.

I cannot disagree with you but I have been told otherwise and guided to the opinion I hold. But, things change over time and some of my POV is "frozen" at the time I retired, tempered by my own use of photo products since then.

PE

Hi,

I am not looking for an agreement or disagreement...just sharing my subjective opinion. Personal film judgments and preferences are not something that can be quantified. This is something that many scientists just don't get; that the "better" film is not necessarily the "better" film, because "better" is a choice, not a fact.

I really could have lived with the current line of films from Kodak and Fuji forever. I figured they were the last ones standing, so must have been being used, and would probably be around quite a while. I expected the tungsten ones to go eventually, but I thought the 800 films would last to the end, given their unique qualities.

I have always said that the fate of still film, especially color, is tightly tied to the motion picture industry. It is the MP industry that has kept film alive as long as it has been. When they make the same switch that both commercial and consumer still photography has, film really is going to be dead, and quickly. Some specialized companies doing b/w may thrive as a result, and RA processing will probably continue, but color is pretty well out at that point, IMO.

Fuji Kills Fujicolor Pro 800z (maybe)

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