Fuji freezer film rumour

Agulliver

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The press release and visible writing in the one photo I've seen strongly suggest that this is resumption of production of Fuji colour film. I know we will nit-pick everything FujiFilm tell us and find holes in it, because they generally aren't fully open about communication.....but it doesn't seem like Kodak has problems fulfilling the "Fuji" 200 and 400 orders as well as their own and Lomography's these days. The confectioning bottleneck seems to have been solved with supplies now regularly reaching retailers. So it would appear to make little sense to ship Kodak film to China for confectioning, or to manufacture Kodak film there at a facility Fuji has been using for photosensitised products for at least twenty years.

C200 was a specific product of FujiFIlm, unlike the 200 ISO film that Kodak makes for them. C400 is a new name though. And yes, the film cassettes shown seem to be in the Kodak printing style....but everything about the press conference is saying this is Fuji film.

I guess we'll find out soon enough. Does this mean less market for Harman and the others trying to get into colour film? That probably depends on how much film use grows in the coming years. If the Pentax 17, Rollei/Mint camera and any further new cameras meet with success (and early indications are that they will) then there's a big enough market for the two big hitters plus some smaller companies. And it's probably no huge deal if Harman go back to producing B&W film since they've likely clawed back R&D costs of Phoenix.

The success of the new Fuji film will also depend to some extent on distribution and price. Is it something I'll be able to pick up off the shelf at Boots or my local camera store at the same price as Ultramax? Next time I am in the USA can I find a bunch of it at Wal-Mart and bring it back? Or will I have to seek it out at inflated prices?
 

ChrisGalway

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I'm intrigued that people keep referencing Harman Phoenix when discussing this welcome Fujifilm development. Fuji and Kodak are serious players in the colour film market, Harman Phoenix is just a joke, more a PR exercise than a serious piece of technology. You just cannot compare the image quality of Phoenix with the professional colour films of Fuji and Kodak.

Of course there is a market for Phoenix ... people who like experimenting and doing things differently ... so it can thrive (or at least get by) as an oddball film. But if you want decent colour reproduction, it's a non-starter.
 

brbo

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If Kodak has trouble fulfilling Fuji's orders that doesn't really mean that they've sorted out their confectioning bottleneck. And I'm pretty sure two substantial price increases from Alaris in one year was the deciding factor in the availability of Kodak film in stores. It could mean that people are either priced out of Kodak film or (like me) pretty sure that they don't need to stuff their freezers with Kodak films anymore since it's very unlikely that demand at those prices will go up and film shortage will be a thing again in the short term.


C200 was always Fuji produced film so it would be very strange to use plain 200 name, plain 200 cassette and plain 200 box if the film was indeed C200. All the images from the plant show 200 and 400 with exactly the same design that was used for Kodak produced film for the past years. The only change is the use of Fuji-style canister. The "C" is nowhere to be seen in any image. So the only thing that say this is a Fuji film is actually the "C" in the translation of the "press release", which is more likely than not a simple mistake. So, even if this new 200 is all Fuji technology, it is probably not the former C200. The 400 can't be C400 as it never existed, as you mentioned.

It's all speculation at this point. What I find odd at this is total lack of any official Fuji communication with the film crowd. They are evidently much better and clearer when they discontinue their films than when they introduce new films. Given that the reintroduction of Acros 100 was handled much better I have my doubts we are getting two new films from Fuji. I learned to hope for the best, but (having) to settle for the worst when Fuji is involved. But, even if this 200/400 is still just Kodak film converted by Fuji, it's better than Kodak doing it all for them.
 

Agulliver

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Sigh. The text of the press release refers specifically to C200. Fuji almost never directly communicate to us because that's just Japanese corporate culture. And to be honest, they could say "we unequivocally are restarting production of our own C200 film. This has nothing to do with Kodak or any other entity. IT's FujiFilm. Made by Fuji just in a different location" and people here would still pick it apart to mean something else.

I'm happy enough to wait and see what we get.
 

dokko

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I tend to share your interpretation since I've been disappointed again and again about how they handled the color film situation in the past many years.

on the other hand, there's a glimmer of hope as the C200 and C400 is in the original chinese text, so not a translation error to english.

however, I'm not certain that this is an official press release or just a blogger writing his interpretation about this event. Something certainly got twisted, since there is no C400, and why not write C200 on the package if that's what is inside.

my hope is that it's a tweaked formula of Fuji C200 and Fuji Industrial 400 (or Superia X-TRA 400) adapted to the chinese machines and current market of RAW chemicals.

let's wait and see
 

brbo

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Agulliver said:
Sigh. The text of the press release refers specifically to C200.
Click to expand...

There is no press release from Fuji. If that "press release" floating around would indeed be from Fuji I would be even more concerned since that would mean that official Fuji source thought they were producing C400 film at some point.

Agulliver said:
Fuji almost never directly communicate to us because that's just Japanese corporate culture.
Click to expand...

Every single discontinuation of any of their films, in the past 15 years at least, has been communicated publicly from official source. The rare re-introductions as well. Even the Kodak produced Fuji 200 and 400, as far as I'm aware. This one hasn't been (yet?).

The Kodak 200/400 were also accompanied by newly published data sheets. This new C200/C400 have no entry on any of the FujiFilm websites and data sheets for 200 and 400 are still the old ones dating back to 2022/09 and 2023/04.

As I said I stopped buying Kodak film (I trust it will be in stock when I want to shoot it), but I will still buy FujiColor 100 and Superia Premium 400 when I can find them. Because I don't trust any Fuji produced negative film to be in stock in the near or far future. If people decide to believe otherwise that is only good for me since I'm not rich, I like Fuji negative films and I really don't need people competing with me, so I will stop with my depressing interpretation of facts and hope for wishful thinking to take over...
 

Arcadia4

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Going back to the original chinese posts linked on various reddit posts and all the available images, it would appear that whilst a welcome investment, this is soley an operation to package fuji 200/400 film produced by Kodak in China, with emphasis on the 'local' i.e. Chinese market.

There is no suggestion of any colour film coating activity planned at the facility and seems unlikely the partner has the capability to do that already. However it suggests that film demand in China is high enough to make the investment worthwhile and packaging costs relative to US and Japan and import taxes etc may also be a consideration in that. No doubt we will see where it is distributed from the Made in China boxes.

I dont think these plans by fuji changes the calculations for Harman and I am sure they will continue to develop a colour product, simply because the colour market is a lot bigger than the B&W one, so one successful product would easily outsell most of the rest.
 

dokko

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Agulliver said:
The effing banner above the dudes giving the presentation says "Fuji Color Film Press Release". Of course it's a press release.
Click to expand...

here is what the image says translated by google:



the text on the chinese website could well be from their interpretation rather than Fujis exact words.

I did a quick search on japanese webpages and couldn't find a peep about the whole matter. actually appart from these two news chinese portals there's no first hand information to be found anywhere. that doesn't mean it's not their own emulsions, but it sure is strange that there isn't more buzz on their domestic market.
 

brbo

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So, almost two months later... anybody seen anything about this new "C200" and "C400" Fuji films?

Two things that I noticed since:

- there is an update to the PetaPixel story that seemingly "Fujifilm confirmed the C200 and C400 film varieties will be produced in and for the Chinese market". Anybody believe there is a dedicated coating and finishing line setup running solely for Chinese market? Or is it more likely that they are just converting Kodak coated film there?

- there is finally plenty of Fuji (well, Kodak) 200/400 film available in Europe.


Do we have any members from China that would have first hand knowledge of what Fuji film is available in China?
 

koraks

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brbo said:
Anybody believe there is a dedicated coating and finishing line setup running solely for Chinese market?
Click to expand...

It's possible; IDK.

What certainly is an issue for Fuji is that the global market isn't as free of hurdles to import & export between China and the rest of the world as one might imagine. In that light, I'm not too surprised about a possible "produced in, and exclusively for China" approach. Although this might also be a matter of launch strategy, where they start serving the domestic Chinese market initially and perhaps later on expand to other parts of the world if everything goes well. Generally speaking, getting stuff shipped out of China is a whole lot easier than the other way around.
 

brbo

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One of the shots from the "grand opening" of the new production line showed a box of the new Fuji 400.







To be fair, this shot does look like it has been taken in some sort of a shop and not inside a film production facility, so somebody putting together the original story might have decided, just for kicks, to add a picture of a genuine USA Kodak produced Fuji 400 film that doesn't have any relation to this "new" film at all. But, at that point I must also question the quality of the rest of the information that we got fed... No word on any of the Fuji's official websites doesn't help, either.
 

Ernst-Jan

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But that is Fujicolor 400, not c400. Fujicolor 200/400 are Gold/Ultramax indeed
 

mshchem

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I don't buy Fuji. Only Provia and Velvia in the old days. I have plenty of film in the fridge. For color neg I've always used Portra and Ektar.
 

aranzebia

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A member of our community bought a Fujifilm made in China.

He checked and the film was made in the USA.

Only the process of dividing it into magazines seems to be done in China.

Yes!Star = Fujifilm = kodak




I didn't take the photo, the source is

중국에서 코닥이 왔어요 - 필름카메라 마이너 갤러리

예스타제 뿌직재포장과 그냥 예스타브랜드둘다 재포장임정성스레 후지필름 중국을 포장지에 적어둔 모습. 근데 원료지는 미국이다.필름통까지 정성스레 바꿔준 모습근데 난 코닥게 쉽게 열려서 좋더라그만 알아보자- dc offic
gall.dcinside.com
 

mshchem

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Thanks for sharing this!!!
 

Alan Edward Klein

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Hopefully, Kodak will make up the difference in film available now that Kodak Alaris was sold to a private investor that has money to invest to expand operations, (assuming Eastman Kodak's production doesn't slow things down.)
 

brbo

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Ernst-Jan said:
But that is Fujicolor 400, not c400. Fujicolor 200/400 are Gold/Ultramax indeed
Click to expand...

Of course, I was talking about Fujifilm 200/400. Fujifilm C400 is a made up fantasy.

Alan Edward Klein said:
Hopefully, Kodak will make up the difference in film available now that Kodak Alaris was sold to a private investor that has money to invest to expand operations, (assuming Eastman Kodak's production doesn't slow things down.)
Click to expand...

Which Kodak film did you find in short supply in the last year?


Thanks @aranzebia! This pretty much kills the hope Fuji is coating film in China
 

foc

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Am I crazy to think that the Chinese Fuji film is a Kodak film made in the USA but packaged (cassette, container tub, outer box) in China by Lucky?????
 

koraks

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foc said:
Am I crazy to think that the Chinese Fuji film is a Kodak film made in the USA but packaged (cassette, container tub, outer box) in China by Lucky?????
Click to expand...

No, that's what the posts immediately above yours actually detailed. Read from #162 onwards; they show exactly what you proposed.
 

Agulliver

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Yep I was wrong and the press conference photo was misleading. Translating the Chinese text on the box above shows that the film was indeed made in USA so it's highly likely to be the same Koda-Fuji films that we already have access to.

Does anyone know if it is actually Kodacolor (Color Plus) and Ultramax? I've shot one roll of the "Fuji 400" and I wouldn't immediately say it was Ultramax. But that's one film, to my eyes without any lab tests.
 

koraks

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Agulliver said:
Yep I was wrong
Click to expand...

Well, I wouldn't beat myself up over it (and isn't it great to sometimes admit you're wrong if that's what happens - aren't we all, some of the time!) The information we had (still have) available to us is limited, difficult to interpret and virtually impossible to verify most of the time.
 

brbo

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foc said:
Am I crazy to think that the Chinese Fuji film is a Kodak film made in the USA but packaged (cassette, container tub, outer box) in China by Lucky?????
Click to expand...

Erm, when did Lucky come into the picture?

We have information that new Fuji film will be "produced" by Guangxi Giant Star Medical Equipment (previously, among other things, produced medical films for Fujifilm) which is a subsidiary of Yes!Star Healthcare Holdings Company. We have pictures of boxes of this new Fujifilm 400 and new Yes!Star 400 film showing there is the same film inside. We have pictures of "Made in USA" written on those boxes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where does Lucky fit in (is Lucky somehow connected to the above companies)?
 

JParker

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Agulliver said:
Does anyone know if it is actually Kodacolor (Color Plus) and Ultramax? I've shot one roll of the "Fuji 400" and I wouldn't immediately say it was Ultramax. But that's one film, to my eyes without any lab tests.
Click to expand...

When Fujifilm 200 was introduced (first in the US) also the new data sheet was published. And that looked identical to Gold 200. If I remember right, it was also presented here on photrio at that time.
I have not made a scientific comparison test, and I have only shot two rolls so far, but my results looked quite different to Color Plus at least.
 
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