Fuji discontinues Neopan 400 and Fujicolor Pro 400

AgX · Mar 6, 2014

With date of February 28th Fuji announced to discontinue:

-) Neopan 400 Presto in the remaining sizes (135-single and 135-3x).

Stock is assumed to end in June.

-) Fujicolor Pro 400 (that is type 120)

Stock is assumed to end in early May.

(Alternatively there still is Fujicolor Pro 400H in types 135 and 120.)

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 6, 2014

Go Ferrania...

Ken

Richard S. (rich815) · Mar 6, 2014

Thread already started a few days ago:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Jaf-Photo · Mar 6, 2014

Fuji has dropped and brought back Neopan 400 a few times now.

I really don't know what biscuits they are on, because it's a fantastic looking film.

I rate it (subjectively) above Tri-X.

AgX · Mar 6, 2014

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Thread already started a few days ago.

I did a search and looked through this forum. Seemingly I'm getting dumb and blind...

Truzi · Mar 6, 2014

I think the thread from a few days ago was even a repeat of one months before. As for searching this site, I don't used the built-in search as it doesn't work that well. Instead I do a general Google search adding:
site:apug.org
That seems to work much better.

RattyMouse · Mar 6, 2014

I really wish I could shoot Neopan 400 in my medium format cameras.

brian steinberger · Mar 7, 2014

RattyMouse said:
I really wish I could shoot Neopan 400 in my medium format cameras.

You're gonna make me cry...

StoneNYC · Mar 7, 2014

This is old news months and months ago, at least 6 in America, can't be sure it's different "over there"

StoneNYC · Mar 7, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Go Ferrania...

Ken

They are starting with E-6

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 7, 2014

StoneNYC said:
They are starting with E-6

True 'dat...

But I'm thinking in the longer term. I've read references that their second resurrected film will be a C-41 color negative offering. From the Film Ferrania blog site, Dead Link Removed entry, reprinting from their original "Alive and Kicking" announcement:

"We think it is better to start revamping the very last produced emulsions. The first two that we will make are a color negative film derived from Ferrania Solaris FG-100 Plus (only for still photographs) and a professional color reversal film derived from Scotch Chrome 100."

My own sense is that color film photography from both Fujifilm and EK/KA is already on life support. The life support machine is Kodak's recent MP contract. Gather the family around the bedside, say a few prayers, unplug that machine, and it may be all over relatively quickly.

At that point we're left with only those film manufacturers who were able to go small. Or are trying to restart small. And might be willing to step into the color breach. We all know who the usual suspects are.

At the moment Film Ferrania seems to be, at least as publicly announced, in the lead...

Ken

StoneNYC · Mar 7, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
True 'dat...

But I'm thinking in the longer term. I've read references that their second resurrected film will be a C-41 color negative offering. From the Film Ferrania blog site, Dead Link Removed entry, reprinting from their original "Alive and Kicking" announcement:

"We think it is better to start revamping the very last produced emulsions. The first two that we will make are a color negative film derived from Ferrania Solaris FG-100 Plus (only for still photographs) and a professional color reversal film derived from Scotch Chrome 100."

My own sense is that color film photography from both Fujifilm and EK/KA is already on life support. The life support machine is Kodak's recent MP contract. Gather the family around the bedside, say a few prayers, unplug that machine, and it may be all over relatively quickly.

At that point we're left with only those film manufacturers who were able to go small. Or are trying to restart small. And might be willing to step into the color breach. We all know who the usual suspects are.

At the moment Film Ferrania seems to be, at least as publicly announced, in the lead...

Ken

Just wish someone would pick up Neopan400 and then make it in 4x5 and 8x10....

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 7, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Just wish someone would pick up Neopan400 and then make it in 4x5 and 8x10....

It's color I'm worried about. We currently have fabulous alternative choices available in black-and-white. Choices that are as close as one is ever going to get to being guaranteed over the long run. And with product ranges and quality that stagger the imagination.

But if Film Ferrania can initially come out of the gate with only a single acceptable 100-speed film in a few popular formats for both E-6 and C-41, and there is a reliable infrastructure for processing (either professionally, or at home), then they will have taken a huge step away from the looming extinction of color film.

They would probably be treated like Gods by the remaining niche color film community. Both motion picture and still photographers alike. And I'd bet that is no secret to them. Or their investors.

Ken

StoneNYC · Mar 7, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
It's color I'm worried about. We currently have fabulous alternative choices available in black-and-white. Choices that are as close as one is ever going to get to being guaranteed over the long run. And with product ranges and quality that stagger the imagination.

But if Film Ferrania can initially come out of the gate with only a single acceptable 100-speed film in a few popular formats for both E-6 and C-41, and there is a reliable infrastructure for processing (either professionally, or at home), then they will have taken a huge step away from the looming extinction of color film.

They would probably be treated like Gods by the remaining niche color film community. Both motion picture and still photographers alike. And I'd bet that is no secret to them. Or their investors.

Ken

But... But... Velvia50 MUST exist forever.... Or I will die....

Ken Nadvornick · Mar 7, 2014

StoneNYC said:
But... But... Velvia50 MUST exist forever.... Or I will die....

Oh, but fear not... it can... it can... in your freezer... just like my one lonely box of Kodachrome 64... sitting on top of my box full of 20 vacuum-sealed PX625 mercury cells... they're both as close as you can get to forever...

Ken

AgX · Mar 7, 2014

StoneNYC said:
This is old news months and months ago, at least 6 in America, can't be sure it's different "over there"

This is new news as this is the first statement of the manufacturer on this subject.

StoneNYC · Mar 7, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Oh, but fear not... it can... it can... in your freezer... just like my one lonely box of Kodachrome 64... sitting on top of my box full of 20 vacuum-sealed PX625 mercury cells... they're both as close as you can get to forever...

Ken

Well the Kidachrome sheets need to be thrown out or shot and B&W processed, that's just silly.... At least E-6 chems I can make myself...

Jaf-Photo · Mar 7, 2014

RattyMouse said:
I really wish I could shoot Neopan 400 in my medium format cameras.

You can still buy small batches of 120 Neopan 400. But you should't because they are all mine

I read somewhere that 120 was cancelled before 136 because it contained an antistatic agent for the backing paper, that was banned. Apparently, it was very harmful for the human immune system.

But anyway, Fuji now doesn't produce any B&W film with 400 iso. This should be the most popular segment for B&W film so you could be forgiven for thinking that Fujifilm are deliberately trying to kill their own business.

RattyMouse · Mar 7, 2014

Jaf-Photo said:
You can still buy small batches of 120 Neopan 400. But you should't because they are all mine

I read somewhere that 120 was cancelled before 136 because it contained an antistatic agent for the backing paper, that was banned. Apparently, it was very harmful for the human immune system.

But anyway, Fuji now doesn't produce any B&W film with 400 iso. This should be the most popular segment for B&W film so you could be forgiven for thinking that Fujifilm are deliberately trying to kill their own business.

Fujifilm *IS* trying to kill its film business. And doing rather well I might add.

Jaf-Photo · Mar 7, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Fujifilm *IS* trying to kill its film business. And doing rather well I might add.

I'm not sure if this post is meant to agree with me or correct my grammar. But I like it

Actually, I've thought some more about this and it makes me mad. Neopan 400 is a fantastic film, but presuming it's not making enough money for Fujifilm, they could just promote it and subsidise it for a while with a film that is making money. All in the interest of civilisation.

Cancelling Neopan 400 is like robbing the photographic community, or for that matter, biting the hand that feeds you.

I am actually going to think long and hard about buying any Fujifilm again. I may have to get out of E6, but then again, if they want to kill their film business, who am I to stand in their way?

RattyMouse · Mar 7, 2014

Jaf-Photo said:
I'm not sure if this post is meant to agree with me or correct my grammar. But I like it

Actually, I've thought some more about this and it makes me mad. Neopan 400 is a fantastic film, but presuming it's not making enough money for Fujifilm, they could just promote it and subsidise it for a while with a film that is making money. All in the interest of civilisation.

Cancelling Neopan 400 is like robbing the photographic community, or for that matter, biting the hand that feeds you.

I am actually going to think long and hard about buying any Fujifilm again. I may have to get out of E6, but then again, if they want to kill their film business, who am I to stand in their way?

No grammer correction intended!

If Neopan 400 wasnt making money, then Fujifilm should have raised the damn price! What was the price when it was axed? Far too low!

I too want to get out of Fujifilm's film. But I cant just yet. Acros is dirt cheap so I buy that film and shoot a lot. I can't bond with Portra colors so for color film I'm stuck with Fuji as well. Ektar 100 is something I like so I will need to spread some color film money that way.

I just hate Fujifilm's handling of their film line. It is embarrassing, big time.

Jaf-Photo · Mar 8, 2014

RattyMouse said:
No grammer correction intended!

If Neopan 400 wasnt making money, then Fujifilm should have raised the damn price! What was the price when it was axed? Far too low!

I too want to get out of Fujifilm's film. But I cant just yet. Acros is dirt cheap so I buy that film and shoot a lot. I can't bond with Portra colors so for color film I'm stuck with Fuji as well. Ektar 100 is something I like so I will need to spread some color film money that way.

I just hate Fujifilm's handling of their film line. It is embarrassing, big time.

Embarrassing, ideed. Shameful even.

Price hikes do pose two problems, however. One general and one specific.

The general problem is that price hikes tend to cost about as much in loss of volume as you gain on unit price. People pay more and buy less.

The specific problem is that price hikes on film tend to signal that the whole company is on the rocks. Film photographers are a nervous lot.

But I believe that Neopan speaks for itself if you just promote it. Try to get hardened Tri-X users to try Neopan 400 to see if they like it. Do side by side comparisons between Neopan 400, Tri-X and HP5. Commission famous photographers to shoot with it.

What happened to the will to compete for business?

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2014

Doesn't seem that long ago that we had an "exclusive" from an APUGer on the re-launch and bright new future of Neopan 400 at the Photokina show. It struck some of us as suspicious that it hadn't revived the 120 stuff as well but the reason for this was never really explained by the APUGer who had the inside story and certainly not by Fuji

Those of us with a cynical nature remained unconvinced about the long term intentions and the latest news seems to confirm our suspicions.

Ask yourself: Would Ilford have handled a re-launch like this? My answer would be No, it wouldn't. So why Fuji if it truly saw Neopan as a genuine anchor product for the future.

It might be that all the marketing skills reside at Ilford and Fuji is just naive and capricious but I don't really buy that.

One thing's for sure if you doubt your intention to keep a product going you don't say anything that might then be held against you at a near future date- you just keep quiet when the questions come. I give Fuji credit for this which isn't the same thing as giving praise.

pentaxuser

giannisg2004 · Mar 8, 2014

The "bad" thing about Fuji is that it's a successful company generating profits (and the Imaging department barely contributes to that).

As such, even if they drop film altogether, I can't see selling their formulations and patents at a price reasonable enough for a startup to buy them and take over.
They're not in need of cash, so they might as well hold the patents (or licensing or whatever) just in case.

Sadly, this would mean no Fuji films at all.

In the case of Kodak, it's a cash-strapped company, with a bloated structure (because it used to be huge and had to slim down rapidly due to declining sales), that can never slim down to the efficiency of a young company.

When it fails, the patents will be bought for peanuts and maybe someone will buy them and reintroduce some emulsions.
The only real danger might be if the film-related patents are bundled with the more (financially) valuable digital imaging patents to fetch more money from someone interested only in the dig. imaging ones.

AgX · Mar 8, 2014

pentaxuser said:
Ask yourself: Would Ilford have handled a re-launch like this? My answer would be No, it wouldn't. So why Fuji if it truly saw Neopan as a genuine anchor product for the future.

It might be that all the marketing skills reside at Ilford and Fuji is just naive and capricious but I don't really buy that.

It most probably is not a matter of marketing skills but a matter of haphazard decisionmaking by a company to which consumer films are of minor interest due to the small share in their revenues.

Fuji discontinues Neopan 400 and Fujicolor Pro 400

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