Fuji Acros Returns in Autumn with Acros II in 35mm & 120

markbau - I use both Nikon and Rodenstock APO lenses and they DO make a real difference. As I understand it, ACROS is a blended emulsion and not T-grain per se. It's quite different from TMax or Delta films, and viewing things under a microscope does not tell the full story in term of how the paper sees the grain. But if you're printing wide open using a Componon S, that's probably part of your problem.

paulbarden said:

Has it not occurred to anyone that there must have been years of R&D that went into "Acros II" before this announcement?? They couldn't possibly have reformulated the film in a matter of months. That suggests that the discontinuation of Acros Neopan was a marketing ploy to make sure all the old inventory got gobbled up quickly before the new version was announced. Don't be fooled by Fuji's "we found that demand for the film was greater than expected, so we are bringing it back in a new formulation. Aren't we great??!" I call BS.

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This is my thought exactly.

paulbarden said:

Has it not occurred to anyone that there must have been years of R&D that went into "Acros II" before this announcement?? They couldn't possibly have reformulated the film in a matter of months.

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Perhaps, or indeed the scientific folks at Fuji may have been doing contingency work in case they did need to change the film.

decsion comes fown that the existing version is not ecconoical, but someone in the lab pushes that if they make these changes that the film can be made is a more economical way (perhaps smaller batch, thinner coating with less silver - whatever) Management sees a resanble chance at a worthwile market, BUT the change is different enough that the film needs a new designation. (consider the difference between TX 400 and 400TX)

the discontinue and anounce new after the market is sold out might be also applicable of course. I don't like to think of the film suppliers who are still in the market as being out to cheat their customers, but they must all be scrambling, as the folks at ADOX keep muttering, it is difficult to make film at the price the market is willing to pay for it.

Japanese companies typically do not divulge much information.

The fact that they may well have known about the need to discontinue Acros and reformulate it a year or two ago and been working on the reformulation does not mean they made a ploy to sell the old inventory.

The lack of clear info is just a part of Japanese business culture. It's no use reading anything more into what they've said and done. What we do know is that Fuji isn't pulling out of film prodution, which we should surely be happy about.

DREW WILEY said:

And the idea that it's a product only for Japanese consumption is unlikely. Most intelligent product introductions start out with central distribution first, see how it goes, then afterwards scale up to the quantity necessary for wider distribution if everything works out fine and the potential market appears to warrant it.

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I agree. If B&H, Adorama, and Freestyle want it, they'll get it. Their buying (and selling) power will be impossible to refuse.

Agulliver said:

The fact that they may well have known about the need to discontinue Acros and reformulate it a year or two ago and been working on the reformulation does not mean they made a ploy to sell the old inventory.

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I think this is probably very close to the reality - I remember Ilford having to reformulate XP2 Super to remove a plasticiser that was banned & Simon Galley stating on here that they were coating a larger amount of stock to hopefully cover the R&D period. Probably not a million miles away from what Fuji was doing - but demand has risen sharply enough that the seemingly sufficient stock sold much, much faster than planned.

DREW WILEY said:

markbau - I use both Nikon and Rodenstock APO lenses and they DO make a real difference. As I understand it, ACROS is a blended emulsion and not T-grain per se. It's quite different from TMax or Delta films, and viewing things under a microscope does not tell the full story in term of how the paper sees the grain. But if you're printing wide open using a Componon S, that's probably part of your problem.

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Where did I say that I was printing wide open? Does anyone print wide open? I said I printed at f7 (halfway between f5.6 and f8) which is the optimum aperture for a 100mm Componon S lens. I have used many APO enlarging lenses over the years and have never seen a difference between them and a non APO lens for B&W work. For colour work, of course, APO's are usually superior. One thing that should be considered is that if a APO lens is perceived to produce a better print than a non APO lens it will probably be due to the fact that it is simply a better designed and constructed lens, not because its an APO. OTOH, some APO's aren't as good as non AOP's. Whilst Rodagon medium format APO's are superb lenses, it was well known in the pro lab circuit that the 50mm APO Rodagon was not as good as a 50mm CompononS which I consider the best lens for 35 film. BTW, I do recall a photographer I once chatted to who swore that APO's were "vastly" superior for B&W work and then told me that glass neg carriers are a waste of time! Anyway, if we continue this interesting discussion we probably should move it to a new thread as we have strayed far from the topic of this thread.

Oh gosh. I have Apo lenses in the lab clear up to 760mm. These were originally designed for reproduction standards well in excess of general photographic applications and were originally way more expensive than ordinary enlarging lenses. It shows. But for my rather infrequent 35mm printing I prefer a different look, since the format itself is incapable of much detail. I shoot 35mm for poetic grainy little prints - just the opposite of my big camera work, where Apo is not just an amenity but often a necessity for optimal quality.

Lachlan Young said:

I think this is probably very close to the reality - I remember Ilford having to reformulate XP2 Super to remove a plasticiser that was banned & Simon Galley stating on here that they were coating a larger amount of stock to hopefully cover the R&D period. Probably not a million miles away from what Fuji was doing - but demand has risen sharply enough that the seemingly sufficient stock sold much, much faster than planned.

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Except that the reason Fuji gave in official statement when they discontinued Acros 100 was... lack of demand.

Lack of demand is relative. A dedicated private corporation that is content with making a decent net profit can survive on niche products that might seem a nuisance to a big corp like Fuji.

Lackerino of Demanderino

NB23 said:

Lackerino of Demanderino

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All the market analysis in this thread is interesting, but I'm afraid it may be just a mite simplistic.
All of the factors described may apply, but they don't apply one at a time.
All of the facts change, and sometimes they change in response to each other. Constituent parts become unavailable, R & D suggests solutions and improvements, costs change, market demands vary and all the changes happen at the same time.
Hopefully this means that the market forces are moving in the right ways.

Their press release distinctly states that ingredient availability issues mandated reformulation. That might have also affected profitability, especially if they had to acquire a significant quantity of something they otherwise don't need for sake of a single product.

I just found this on the B&H page

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...lm_15942277_RVP_135_36_Fujichrome_Velvia.html

That's $16.99 a roll, which translates into lack of demand on my part.

I like having choices so I hope they release Acros ll soon in the states. As far as the price increase on the Fuji E-6, yes at first it is a shock. But with home development it is still pretty cheap to use. I guess some will find it cost prohibited or shoot far less of it. I don't see me using any less of it. I will just trim my budget and eat out less. Funny people have no problem with a large cell or cable bill but grip about film which on the hole is cheaper and more fun.

Try shooting 8x10 color film if you want sticker shock!

paulbarden said:

Has it not occurred to anyone that there must have been years of R&D that went into "Acros II" before this announcement?? They couldn't possibly have reformulated the film in a matter of months. That suggests that the discontinuation of Acros Neopan was a marketing ploy to make sure all the old inventory got gobbled up quickly before the new version was announced. Don't be fooled by Fuji's "we found that demand for the film was greater than expected, so we are bringing it back in a new formulation. Aren't we great??!" I call BS.

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Why would you think that it should take years to of R and D for Fuji to have developed Acros II? They already have decades of experience in manufacturing film, the original Acros as a foundation, and hundreds of man hours available to focus on the production of Acros II.
At any rate, a vendor wanting to sell existing product in order to realize as much financial return for the existing before releasing the new is simply smart business. It's a ploy if you see it that way, but so is every single Apple commercial, Super Bowl ad or any product at your local supermarket arranged at the end of the aisle.

It's simply consumerism, we like things, manufactures like profit for those things.

DREW WILEY said:

markbau - I use both Nikon and Rodenstock APO lenses and they DO make a real difference..

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Dug out my 90mm Componon APO HM tonight (it was boxed up ready to sell as I wanted to standardise on all Componon S lenses) I was doing 8x10s from 67 negs. Whilst I still believe they are no sharper than the regular Componon S what I did notice is that with the same filtration the prints seem to have a little more contrast. Maybe I wont sell it after all! I only got the APO to do enormous prints, a task that they excel at. Once I did that job I put it away.

Hi. The term you want is "microtonality". I have used a lot of Componon S lenses in the past, and have tested regular old Componons in chrome barrel, but have no experience with the Apo Componon series, so can't comment on the difference. But it's probably comparable to the distinction I've discovered between regular Rodagon enlarging lenses, which are quite good, and the Apo Rogagon-N series, where the subtle microtonality of the images is distinctly better, contrast too. But for big film sizes, like 8x10, I use Apo Nikkor lenses, which are even better in this respect, and appreciably better than ordinary El Nikkor enlarging lenses, which I use too. There are good reasons why I keep quite a variety of enlarging lenses on hand. Sometimes I want a little less contrast in color printing certain images; or a given focal length of lens might be available in one series, and not another. Or I might have gotten certain excellent lenses free when a some commercial lab was demolished, so use them. I also keep a few funky enlarging lenses on hand when I want a funky look; but that's just for 35mm shapshot-style work. Fun topic. ACROS film holds a lot of detail for its size, along with excellent edge effect which is best brought out using high-end enlarging lenses. This is important to me when shooting it in medium format 120 size. With large format sheet film, you can ignore grain issues to some extent and choose films for other reasons, like superior edge definition. But with the greater degree of enlargement needed with 120 film (I shoot both 6X7 and 6X9), the special characteristics of ACROS allow very high quality prints if all the related printing variables are optimized too.

How on earth did I miss this?

Man, Fuji can't win. If they discontinue a film, they have abandoned the film community. If they put a lot of research into keeping a film around, they are liars. I have never used Acros, so I look forward to trying it. Their Superia is now outside my price range, though.

Any news on Acros II?

dutchsteammachine said:

Any news on Acros II?

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It's not Autumn yet...

Andrew O'Neill said:

It's not Autumn yet...

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Where I live it feels like Autumn already. !!!