FSU original Barnack copy in comparing to newer FSU M39 cameras with removable backs

darkosaric · Sep 22, 2015

Hi all,

I had zorki 4 and some other newer FSU cameras (fed, kiev). They worked relatively ok, but feeling and handling was not so good, not like a fine tuned instrument. On the other hand - recently I played with one old FED - copy of original Barnack camera, and it was much nicer. Winding the film, focusing, shutter sound - all was much better than in newer cameras like Zorki 4 (with removable back). Is this really so - or I just had very nice sample in my hands ?

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Sep 22, 2015

Its true , older the leitz or fed zorki , better they are. I think last barnack copy made in 1954 , I think there is big chance to work with leitz engineers. Than they all worked for space race , I guess.

georg16nik · Sep 22, 2015

The FED up until 1949 and Zorki up until 1953 are amazing cameras if you know how to use them. Most of these should still be in excellent shape if used properly and not Frankensteined.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Sep 22, 2015

Georg,

I have a FED , last production run and 53 or 54.

ps. FED 1 is until 1949 , 5500 pieces , I have FED 2 ended at 53 or 54.

Best,

Umut

cuthbert · Sep 22, 2015

I'm not a great fan of the Zorki 4, IMO the Zorki 5 and 6 are better cameras, and probably even the Fed2.

Original Barnacks are slow cameras to handle IMO, the later models were more shooter's tools.

Dali · Sep 22, 2015

cuthbert, not sure your comment answers the OP question... even if I somewhat agree with you.

cuthbert · Sep 23, 2015

Dali said:
cuthbert, not sure your comment answers the OP question... even if I somewhat agree with you.

It answers.

IMO the building quality of a Z6 is similar to a Z1, while I agree the Z4 is roughly made.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Sep 23, 2015

cuthbert said:
Original Barnacks are slow cameras to handle IMO, the later models were more shooter's tools.

I disagree , barnacks are one of the fastest cameras to compose better quality compositions because it gives little bit time to think. Thinking is good by yourself , if you make art or science.

After using 6 barnacks and many copies , I decided to buy a canon.

Faster cameras are irritating , you dont need to think or most importantly adjust and you find your self in difficult postures and non ergonomic handling.

Barnack forces to look camera and composition couple of times and you must think distance , light , speed and most importantly what lens would compose a color degrade and detail and relief.

You find yourself relaxed and let it go.

georg16nik · Sep 23, 2015

cuthbert said:
It answers.

IMO the building quality of a Z6 is similar to a Z1, while I agree the Z4 is roughly made.

The Barnacks (LeicaI,II,III, Zorki I, FED I) simplistic winding mechanism is extremely reliable. Same can not be said about the Zorkis and Feds past early 50's.
Furthermore, Zorki 6 takeup spool is plastic, the back hinges iffy... and I will leave it at that.
The Barnack is solid like a tank.

OptiKen · Sep 23, 2015

While there is a lot to be said for SLRs, I love my Barnacks. After running film through Zorki (1), 4, 6, Canon IIS, IVSB2, and a Leica IIIf, I have to admit that my favorites are my Leica IIIf and my Zorki (1).
Many people think that rangefinders are 'slow', yet I find my Leica to be very fast to compose, focus and shoot. I love the clockwork type mechanism of both the Zorki and Leica and the wonderful sound of the Leica shutter.

Alan Johnson · Sep 23, 2015

I never could decide the answer to the OP's question so I kept all of them (attachment).
Top left is one of the first large production batch of Leica II (it has a newer lens fitted).

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Sep 23, 2015

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Georg,

I have a FED , last production run and 53 or 54.

ps. FED 1 is until 1949 , 5500 pieces , I have FED 2 ended at 53 or 54.

Best,

Umut

I remembered now , I had FED 1G from 1954 , after that I dont know what happens.

Sorry.

Dali · Sep 23, 2015

OK, if the OP speaks about QUALITY, older cameras generally have a better finish, smoother to operate.

If the OP speaks about FEATURES, newer cameras are slightly better: better rangefinder, dioper adjustment, hinged back, flash synchro, standard mount, standard body register (28.80mm).

I prefer Barnack clones (prewar FED): not the fastest to operate (+ uncoated lens, not everyone's taste) but the nicest of all IMO (late FEDs are plain ugly).

cuthbert · Sep 23, 2015

georg16nik said:
The Barnacks (LeicaI,II,III, Zorki I, FED I) simplistic winding mechanism is extremely reliable. Same can not be said about the Zorkis and Feds past early 50's.
Furthermore, Zorki 6 takeup spool is plastic, the back hinges iffy... and I will leave it at that.
The Barnack is solid like a tank.

Actually a Z6 or a Fed2 is simpler than a Leica III because they have no low speed mechanism, in my Z6s the takeup spool cannot be disassembled and it's tough, as well as the back hinge. The Fed2 has a Contax like removable back and both camera have a more contrasty rangefinder that make focusing easier than with my Leica IIIb.

These cameras were a sort of merge of Leica and Contax concept and IMO they are superior to the original Leica copies, the operation, especially of the Fed2 is extremely smooth and pleasant if your camera is correctly CLAd.

georg16nik · Sep 23, 2015

cuthbert said:
Actually a Z6 or a Fed2 is simpler than a Leica III because they have no low speed mechanism..

Leica III slow speeds mechanism has nothing to do with winding of the camera (cooking the shutter) - you ought to know that.

The Leica III/IIIx shutter winding gear is identical to the early Barnacks - if you don't engage the front dial, it operates like Leica I.
The slow speeds (front dial) activates a simple watch gear mechanism that delays the second curtain, but same is not used while winding the shutter - thus, you can change the slows speeds (front dial) before or after the shutter is cooked (winding).

darkosaric · Sep 23, 2015

Dali said:
OK, if the OP speaks about QUALITY, older cameras generally have a better finish, smoother to operate.

If the OP speaks about FEATURES, newer cameras are slightly better: better rangefinder, dioper adjustment, hinged back, flash synchro, standard mount, standard body register (28.80mm).

I prefer Barnack clones (prewar FED): not the fastest to operate (+ uncoated lens, not everyone's taste) but the nicest of all IMO (late FEDs are plain ugly).

I was thinking about quality and smoothness, not features.

cuthbert · Sep 23, 2015

georg16nik said:
Leica III slow speeds mechanism has nothing to do with winding of the camera (cooking the shutter) - you ought to know that.

The Leica III/IIIx shutter winding gear is identical to the early Barnacks - if you don't engage the front dial, it operates like Leica I.
The slow speeds (front dial) activates a simple watch gear mechanism that delays the second curtain, but same is not used while winding the shutter - thus, you can change the slows speeds (front dial) before or after the shutter is cooked (winding).

This is true for Leicas but you ought to know that it's not for Soviet cameras as the typical flaw of Zorki 4s et similia is the coupling of fast and slow speeds in a single dial: if you rotate it without winding the film you might damage the slow speeds, this doesn't happen with Z5, Z6 and Fed2, so they are more robust and reliable than the other Soviet cameras.

georg16nik · Sep 23, 2015

cuthbert said:
This is true for Leicas but you ought to know that it's not for Soviet cameras as the typical flaw of Zorki 4s et similia is the coupling of fast and slow speeds in a single dial: if you rotate it without winding the film you might damage the slow speeds, this doesn't happen with Z5, Z6 and Fed2, so they are more robust and reliable than the other Soviet cameras.

So, the main plot of this thread is Barnacks and specifically early FED.
Zorki 4 is pretty much out of this thread interest, and you are the only one who is bringing it back in, ditto for Z5 & Z6.
Now, to wrap up the FED NKVD educational part, here's a FED from 1938 with slow speeds front dial - just like Leica III, including the top speed 1/1000.

Dali · Sep 23, 2015

It is a FED B (pretty rare) fitted with a 2.0/50mm FED lens. Please note the added synchro flash.

cuthbert · Sep 24, 2015

georg16nik said:
So, the main plot of this thread is Barnacks and specifically early FED.
Zorki 4 is pretty much out of this thread interest, and you are the only one who is bringing it back in, ditto for Z5 & Z6.

I think you have to re-read the first post of the OP: he compared the quality or early Feds and Zorkis against a Zorki 4.

I would also suggest you to report me to the mods because I dared to "bring back" the Zorki 4 in this thread disturbing the peace of the board.

Ko.Fe. · Sep 24, 2015

darkosaric said:
Hi all,

I had zorki 4 and some other newer FSU cameras (fed, kiev). They worked relatively ok, but feeling and handling was not so good, not like a fine tuned instrument. On the other hand - recently I played with one old FED - copy of original Barnack camera, and it was much nicer. Winding the film, focusing, shutter sound - all was much better than in newer cameras like Zorki 4 (with removable back). Is this really so - or I just had very nice sample in my hands ?

If you could get freshly, fully and really CLA'd M39 FSU camera with advance knob they are all easy to wind with index finger single slide.

Prewar FED seems to be special according to reviews I have read on-line. But they are so expensive, I was fine with IIf instead.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Sep 24, 2015

Ko.Fe. said:
If you could get freshly, fully and really CLA'd M39 FSU camera with advance knob they are all easy to wind with index finger single slide.

Prewar FED seems to be special according to reviews I have read on-line. But they are so expensive, I was fine with IIf instead.

Yes , fed prices are increasing and leica prices are cheap if you dont tourist trapped . I cant see a reason to buy a fed if you are not poor.

darkosaric · Sep 25, 2015

The only reason that I am considering FED camera is the rare 50mm f2 FED lens (Summar copy). I have Summar and I like it a lot, so I am wondering how different FED 50mm f2 is (not better or worse, but different/similar). Focusing FED lens on Leica body is usually not a problem for f3,5 lenses (I had Industar-22 and it was working fine on M3 with adapter), but for FED f2 lens I think it is better to have FED body.

georg16nik · Sep 25, 2015

The 50mm ƒ2 FED lens uses different glass that the Summar and renders with it's own character with or without hood.
Also, unlike the Summar the ƒ2 FED front rotates while you focus. Chances for finding a good sample ƒ2 FED even today are much higher than finding a passable Summar.
Most ƒ2 FED I've seen or owned over the years, got strongly pronounced rainbow bloom (iridescent oxidation) of the glass.
The body got 1/1000, which is a nice bonus...
If you came across reasonably priced, good shape sample and you wanna know whats all the fuss about - shoot!

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Sep 25, 2015

darkosaric said:
The only reason that I am considering FED camera is the rare 50mm f2 FED lens (Summar copy). I have Summar and I like it a lot, so I am wondering how different FED 50mm f2 is (not better or worse, but different/similar). Focusing FED lens on Leica body is usually not a problem for f3,5 lenses (I had Industar-22 and it was working fine on M3 with adapter), but for FED f2 lens I think it is better to have FED body.

Dear Darko,

Leitz Summar to fed 50 difference is elephant to donkey. If you have summar , why you would not use it ? Its an unbeliveable lens. Spend your GAS for leica . If you dont know what to do with Leica , write to me and I will give you homework.

FSU original Barnack copy in comparing to newer FSU M39 cameras with removable backs

darkosaric

Mustafa Umut Sarac

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Mustafa Umut Sarac

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Dali

cuthbert

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