Frustration/Uneven Dev Pyrocat JOBO

wilsonneal · Dec 2, 2006

Shot a portrait the other day to test my new 3005 drum. Shooting 8x10 TMY. Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100. The shot is a from knees up on a grey seamless background. The background is very evenly lit.

The first run showed streaking and unevenness in the background. I had loaded the film, poured in 1000ml of tempered pre-soak water, developed normally with 1000ml of developer, water stop and fix, conducted all steps through photoflo in the 3005.

Second run I decided to load wet to try to get rid of streaks. I filled two of the Jobo drum's tubes with tempered water, loaded the sheets, capped it and set it on the base for a 3 minute pre-soak. Then finished as before.

Again, I have unevenness in the background.

What other steps could contribute to this? I am very frustrated as I expected the 3005 to solve my problems, not give me new ones! LOL.

Neal

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 2, 2006

You're pre-washing your film while the drum is rotating? hmmm....

I'd say this could be a side-effect of the uni-directional rotation - but post some scans so we can see the problem. Hard to diagnose without having the results to see.

wilsonneal · Dec 2, 2006

Should have mentioned:

I am reversing the drum every minute by picking the drum up and flipping it the other direction.

My main computer is in the shop so scans will have to wait until later today.

N

colrehogan · Dec 2, 2006

When I do my pre-wash, I pour in the water, and rotate the drum in my arms once or twice (simulating the movement of the motor) until I can get to my motor base. Also, are you pouring your water directly onto the negs inside the drum? I started doing this as well as rotating the tank and don't see any developer streaks.

Diane

wilsonneal · Dec 2, 2006

Hi Diane
Thanks for the response.
The first run, the film was in the drum and I poured the pre-soak in and set the drum on the base. I feared the streaking was due to this.

So then I:

The second run the drum was FULL of pre-soak and I inserted the negs smoothly into the full tubes of water. It sat like that for 30 seconds or so and then onto the motor base for 3 minutes of rotary agitation.
N

sanking · Dec 2, 2006

wilsonneal said:
What other steps could contribute to this? I am very frustrated as I expected the 3005 to solve my problems, not give me new ones! LOL.

Neal

Are you sure that the streaking is not anti-halation backing that did not clear completely. This often happens with tube type processing because the back of the film is in such firm contact with the wall of the tubes that you don't gete any flow there. When developing film in BTZS type tubes I always remove the film from the tubes after the stop and fix in a tray to clear the back. Try fixing the film again in a tray to see if this might be the problem.

Sandy King

wilsonneal · Dec 2, 2006

With respect to Sandy's suggestion, I did just try refixing in a tray and washed one of the negs in my archival washer. No change to the unevenness.

On the second run, I did only two negs. Of those two, one has unevenness and the other doesn't seem to have any, at least visually (haven't set up the print line yet this morning). I am thinking that the one that had longer in the non-agitation pre-soak (the time it took me to load the other negative into the pre-soak) had longer to absorb water without agitation. For my next attempt I think I will leave the negs undisturbed in the pre-soak for three minutes without agitation.

My wife, who is a little more spiritual than I, believes that the thing that I am ultimately afraid of is the thing I must conquer. I am most afraid of hand-shuffling 8x10 sheets in tray development. Carl Weese swears by this method. I am trying to avoid it at all costs because I believe it will be a scratch-fest and result in uneven development. My wife thinks this is exactly what I must work through.
N

clay · Dec 2, 2006

It will be a scratch fest at first. But then you get better and the problem goes away. It is far less likely to give you uneven results in my opinion, and you also will get lower base+fog as a bonus. Just decide to waste a dozen sheets of old film practicing tray developing on some throwaway shots, and then you will have the technique the rest of your life.

wilsonneal said:
C
I am trying to avoid it at all costs because I believe it will be a scratch-fest and result in uneven development. My wife thinks this is exactly what I must work through.
N

sanking · Dec 2, 2006

wilsonneal said:
My wife, who is a little more spiritual than I, believes that the thing that I am ultimately afraid of is the thing I must conquer. I am most afraid of hand-shuffling 8x10 sheets in tray development. Carl Weese swears by this method. I am trying to avoid it at all costs because I believe it will be a scratch-fest and result in uneven development. My wife thinks this is exactly what I must work through.
N

Are you using the 3005 on a Jobo or on some other type of motor base? I am not real clear how you are filling the drum with developer.

Sandy King

wilsonneal · Dec 2, 2006

Sandy, thanks for your interest.

I am using the JOBO 3005 on a Unicolor base. I am putting the base on its end and pouring the chemicals in, and then placing the drum on the rotating base. Others tell me that this works for them.

Thanks again for your interest,

Neal

sanking · Dec 2, 2006

wilsonneal said:
Sandy, thanks for your interest.

I am using the JOBO 3005 on a Unicolor base. I am putting the base on its end and pouring the chemicals in, and then placing the drum on the rotating base. Others tell me that this works for them.

Thanks again for your interest,

Neal

Neal,

I think you should try pouring in the developer with the drum already rotating. You can do this by using a funnel and tube. I strongly suspect that pouring in the developer from the top is resulting in the film not being wetted out evenly with the devleoper all at the same time. If this were to happen, you would almost certainly get streaking.

Sandy

waterlily · Dec 3, 2006

I process 5x7 and 8x10 in Jobo drums on a reversing motor base exactly as Sandy explains. That is with a funnel and with the drum rotating. The only thing I would add is that I used a tube out of a funnel at first but you have to hold the tube at a 90 degree angle to keep it from dragging on the drum opening. Instead now I have a short piece of tubing out of the funnel into a 90 degree piece of plastic plumbing pipe about 1/2 in. in diameter with a 3 inch extension into the drum. That way I don't have to hold the tubing at a angle into the drum. I pour the chemicals into the drum with it rotating. I get no streaks. I am using Pyrocat P-HD developer.

wilsonneal · Dec 3, 2006

Success and Thank Yous

Sandy, et al:

I have success at last.

I went out to stores--Home Depot and the Auto Parts store--looking for funnels and/or tubing that would be appropriate.

At the Auto Parts store I found an 'additives' funnel with an attached tube with O.D. of about 1/2". Interestingly, it's marked in ml and oz., holding exactly 1 liter.

At Home Depot I found a 2 qt funnel, and I liked the idea of that...extra room. I also found some 3/4" I.D. tubing that just fit inside the mouth of the Expert cap (3005) and over the funnel's spout. I picked up some glue that was labeled for plastic thinking I could marry the tubing to the funnel permanently.

At home I found that the glue would not mate the funnel to the tube, so I just jammed it in there and did a practice 'pour' with water. Total failure. The tubing fit the mouth of the JOBO so tightly that it wouldn't allow fluid to smoothly enter the drum. I tried several times, pouring slowly too, and I couldn't make it work.

The funnel/tube from the Auto Parts store, although a much smaller diameter tubing, worked flawlessly. It allows air and liquid to trade places much better than the fat tubing.

My next negs were flawless.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions to get past this problem. It's been a very rewarding weekend for me.

Neal

PS: Question for Waterlily: Which reversing base are you using, have you made any mods to it, and are you using Expert Drums? Thanks

JLP · Dec 3, 2006

Neal, Could be the fix. Don't know what fixer you are using but TMY requires a longer or a more concentrated fixer than most other film.
I use the Zonal Pro rapid fix and i always fix two minutes more when processing TMY than any other film.

jan

Photographica · Dec 4, 2006

I had a similar problem with streaking in a cloudless sky. I suspected that the developer was depleted during the development so I split my development time in half and used two batches of fresh developer.

My situation may differ from yours in some other variable but this worked for me.

Good Luck.

Frustration/Uneven Dev Pyrocat JOBO

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