Frozen TEA Triethanalomine

I have found my Triethanalomine TEA frozen into a solid block.
It was stored in the garage alongside the frozen acetic acid.
The acetic reverts back to liquid in clement months so no worries with that.

Looking on line the TEA solidifies at about 21C. the outside temperature is 7C. My darkroom average temperature is about 18C.

I have had the stuff in the house for a day but it is still solid.

Is there a safe recognised way to get the TEA back into a liquid in reasonable time?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

BobUK said:

I have found my Triethanalomine TEA frozen into a solid block.
It was stored in the garage alongside the frozen acetic acid.
The acetic reverts back to liquid in clement months so no worries with that.

Looking on line the TEA solidifies at about 21C. the outside temperature is 7C. My darkroom average temperature is about 18C.

I have had the stuff in the house for a day but it is still solid.

Is there a safe recognised way to get the TEA back into a liquid in reasonable time?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Click to expand...

M.P. 21.6 ° C, you're gonna need some heat to melt any sizable quantity. Warm water bath. If your house is close to the melting point could take forever to thaw.

mshchem said:

M.P. 21.6 ° C, you're gonna need some heat to melt any sizable quantity. Warm water bath. If your house is close to the melting point could take forever to thaw.

Click to expand...

I am no scientist but if a house is close to the melting point, say 20 or 21C then surely a water bath at 25C or any small amount if extra heat will do the trick and not take long to melt it?

Given that most U.K. houses' average temperature in our winter months is not above 21.6 then I presume that the secret is to melt the TEA then divide into small containers and thaw those as required?

What happens when a small amount of TEA is needed as part of a much bigger volume of developer which is then used at say 20C? Does the TEA then revert to a small frozen lump or as it is now mixed with liquids that remain liquid at normal room temp does that prevent any further risk of freezing?

Thanks

pentaxuser

I mix PC-TEA. In the winter my house is about 65F or 18C and I have never noticed it frozen. I'd agree with the warm water suggestion for thawing.

My darkroom sits at 16C when I'm not using it (during my nighty night time ). I just stick the 100ml bottle of PC-TEA, 510-Pyro, etc, in a beaker of warm water and Bob's your uncle. Otherwise this stuff is quite viscous.

BobUK said:

Is there a safe recognised way to get the TEA back into a liquid in reasonable time?

Click to expand...

Heat it up.

pentaxuser said:

surely a water bath at 25C or any small amount if extra heat will do the trick and not take long to melt it?

Click to expand...

Precisely. I'd suggest 40-50C so the whole thing happens a little quicker and the TEA will become a little easier to handle (pour/pull up etc).

pentaxuser said:

What happens when a small amount of TEA is needed as part of a much bigger volume of developer which is then used at say 20C? Does the TEA then revert to a small frozen lump or as it is now mixed with liquids that remain liquid at normal room temp does that prevent any further risk of freezing?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Click to expand...

Thanks all.

A water bath it is then.

pentaxuser has set me thinking.

In the darkroom is a bottle with nearly a litre of unfrozen TEA, also my mixed up developers are not frozen. All at about 14C when the darkroom is not in use.
The central heating is kept low in there as a cost saving measure, oil filled radiator goes on when using the room.

Watch this space.

BobUK said:

pentaxuser has set me thinking.

In the darkroom is a bottle with nearly a litre of unfrozen TEA, also my mixed up developers are not frozen. All at about 14C when the darkroom is not in use.
The central heating is kept low in there as a cost saving measure, oil filled radiator goes on when using the room.

Watch this space.

Click to expand...

Yes I was surprised at how difficult it seemingly was to "unfreeze" TEA from the poster that caused me to ask the questions I did

It appears from others' experience that things are not that bad at all It even seems that from your experience and at least one other than it does not freeze at several degrees less than 21.6 when less than 99% pure and in terms of its efficacy for its use in photographic developers that level of purity is not required

Certainly John Finch mentions it in several home-made developers including his latest video on FX55 developer in the context of using ascorbic acid instead of sodium ascorbate. He makes no mention of any freezing issues when using it in his darkroom. His darkroom is a outside shed and in the North of Scotland so I assume that in that climate the risk of freezing would be a defínite risk

pentaxuser

My first attempt at a hot water bath to thaw the TEA was a lesson in itself.

The TEA is in a plastic, two litre container. The rectangular shaped ones with a moulded in handle. Looks like a small engine oil container.

I had the water bath at 40C for about eight hours. It slowly thawed from the outside in. At midnight it had only melted about an inch depth all round with a large rectangular solid in the middle.
Midnight was time for bed. I left the container in the water bath overnight with the hotplate turned off. As the whole thing cooled the crystal in the centre had started growing again.

Next day I started about ten in the morning. After twelve hours the entire thing was back to the liquid state.

I have left the container in the darkroom at around 14-16C for two nights now and the TEA is staying in the liquid state.

I remember from my geology classes how saturated solutions need a nucleation point to start the process of crystal forming.
The large chunk of crystal left in the first attempt must have acted like a giant nucleation point to start the regrowth.
So it looks like when thawing the TEA a complete thaw is required to inhibit the regrowth of the large crystal block.

Thankyou all for the suggestions and thoughts.