Frozen Chemistry

Jeff Searust · Jan 2, 2009

I have a darkroom in my garage, and while it rarely freezes where I am, It does get very cold, and on occasion will freeze. Does anyone know of any issues with chemistry exposed to temperature variations such as this. I would also wonder about the summer when the chemistry will be over 90 and have to be cooled for use.

I wonder if I should keep the chemistry in the house and onlyu take it out to the darkroom for use.

jim appleyard · Jan 2, 2009

I've never had chems freeze, but everything I've read on these here forums says you should not do this. The componants may/will come out of solution and not go back in.

PhotoJim · Jan 2, 2009

Jim is exactly right. Also be aware that the freezing point of various chemicals is not always the same as the freezing point of water. For example, the freezing point of glacial acetic acid is 15 degrees (high 50s in the old reckoning).

dpurdy · Jan 2, 2009

I have stored dektol in the freezer. It comes out of solution but when you warm it up and give it a stir it goes right back in. I also store my bottle of Glycin powder in the freezer.

Ian Grant · Jan 2, 2009

It's not advisable some crystallisation will take place and it can be a problem getting the solution to re-dissolve properly. You could use a very low powered heater to keep the temperature falling below freezing. Or as you suggest store the chemicals elsewhere during very cold spells.

Keep your lenses in the house, at low temperatures moisture can creep inside and if the lenses are used without careful warming up you'll get condensation on the inner glass surfaces.

Ian

nickandre · Jan 2, 2009

Color chemistry (E6) should not be frozen, according to Kodak. You could put them in a cabinet and use a space heater to keep it at 60.

ZoneIII · Nov 16, 2010

I froze my mixed E6 chemistry at the suggestion of someone in these forums who insisted that it was the way to go. Unfortunately, it ruined the chemistry and an entire batch of film. Never again!

2F/2F · Nov 16, 2010

ZoneIII said:
I froze my mixed E6 chemistry at the suggestion of someone in these forums who insisted that it was the way to go. Unfortunately, it ruined the chemistry and an entire batch of film. Never again!

Who was it!

Sirius Glass · Nov 16, 2010

Freezing chemistry or allowing it to freeze is a bad idea. Not going back into solution properly is only one reason, but after one reason, why would anyone need more reasons.

If playing in traffic will get you killed, that should be enough reason not to play in traffic. Of course taking you out of the gene pool could be a good reason for you to play in traffic.

Steve

Christopher Walrath · Nov 16, 2010

Research your chemicals to make sure. Some chemistry, upon freezing, will seperate and are not remixable.

Gerald C Koch · Nov 16, 2010

Be careful with glass botttles containing solutions as they may shatter when the contents freeze.

Rob Landry · Nov 24, 2010

ZoneIII said:
I froze my mixed E6 chemistry at the suggestion of someone in these forums who insisted that it was the way to go. Unfortunately, it ruined the chemistry and an entire batch of film. Never again!

Did you freeze the concentrates or the mixed working solutions? If the latter, it would not have "ruined" your chems. I've been doing this for years and have never experienced a single failure or ruined roll of film. I processed 4 rolls 3 weekends ago from frozen stock and all chems thawed perfectly with no precipitates. All solutions were clear (minus the Bleach and CD of course) with no evidence of any components failing to redissolve.

As for your ruined chems, what was their physical appearance after thawing? Did they look different than freshly mixed chems? Did you process any film with that same batch before freezing? Some additional info would be appreciated.

hrst · Nov 24, 2010

I have found that dropping temperature extends the shelf life by reducing oxidation greatly.

However, just to be 100% sure, I wouldn't recommend going below 10 deg.C. Even this should give a very nice effect in many cases, maybe doubling the shelf life compared to room temperature storage, or better.

Personally, I store XTOL, C-41 and E6 solutions (not bleach, as it keeps perfectly at room temp) at 4 degC without any problems.

My test earlier showed that XTOL stored at 4 deg.C in a partially filled bottle with a lot of air kept as well as carefully squeezed bottle at the room temp, while a partially filled bottle at the room temp was spoiled quickly. So, I'd conduct that displacing all the air and storing at reduced temperatures would give a very long shelf life. Just don't go too low --- it may work but do it by your own risk!

thicktheo · Jul 20, 2011

So... I put a (plastic) bottle of stock Microphen in the freezer, in order to get it cool fast (from 30c to usable 20), then I forgot about it and it spent six or seven hours in the freezer. When I remembered to take it out, it was totally frozen.

...and the question is, what happens now? Can I use that Microphen again? It's only been used 5 times and it's a shame to throw it away, but I (obviously) wouldn't want to risk destroying my films.

Athiril · Jul 20, 2011

Thaw it out, see if it's homogenous or not.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 20, 2011

Do not refrigerate or freeze any photographic solutions unless the manufacturer says that it is OK. I know of only one and that is Ethol TEC. The manufacturer suggests that refrigeration will increase the product life.

railwayman3 · Jul 20, 2011

PhotoJim said:
For example, the freezing point of glacial acetic acid is 15 degrees (high 50s in the old reckoning).

I remember seeing, a long time ago in a college lab store, a gallon glass bottle of glacial acetic acid which had shattered in a sudden cold snap over the Christmas hols, despite low heating being on.
It's not the sort of stuff that you want to find running down walls and over the floor as it unfreezes again! :eek:

Gerald C Koch · Jul 20, 2011

Many people are unaware that glacial acetic acid is also a fire hazard.

Mike Wilde · Jul 20, 2011

The worst one for 'freezing' is TEA (Tri Etho Amine I think). It sets up below 20C. In the winter I store it on top of the hot air plenum outside my basement darkroom so it is ready to be poured.

thicktheo · Jul 21, 2011

Athiril said:
Thaw it out, see if it's homogenous or not.

It is homogenous. It looks like it did before I accidentally froze it.

Athiril · Jul 21, 2011

railwayman3 said:
I remember seeing, a long time ago in a college lab store, a gallon glass bottle of glacial acetic acid which had shattered in a sudden cold snap over the Christmas hols, despite low heating being on.
It's not the sort of stuff that you want to find running down walls and over the floor as it unfreezes again! :eek:

Glacial acetic acid is pretty nasty stuff... I prefer handling chlorine gas and concentrated sulphuric acid any day. :/

I should check on my bottle now that its 12c inside the house in unheated rooms.. though my bottle is also wrapped up and kept away from other things.

Frozen Chemistry

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