From Polaroid: SX-70 Manipulation Issues

Sean · Jul 15, 2005

well I got a batch of 05/2006 lot#040548179 and I've never manipulated polaroid before but it doesn't seem to do squat. I press firm and nothing, press harder and get black and that's having to really press hard. I am assuming my batch is bad, I can't imagine it being a good batch and having to press so hard for barely any result of some kind

Oh well, guess I'll take some family snaps with it and seek a good batch on ebay..

Alex Hawley · Jul 15, 2005

Sean, just checking a couple things first. Did you try manipulating two to three hours after taking? Did you try warming the print?

Good luck trying to get some on E-Bay. I haven't seen it come up very often. Still, its worth a shot.

Sean · Jul 15, 2005

This was within the 1st 5 minutes of the exposure. Yeah ebay looks pretty dry for sx70 film. I'll try a few other local shops. I had the impression that a gentle but firm action, and I'd see the emulsion twirling beneath the tools?..

Alex Hawley · Jul 15, 2005

Sean said:
This was within the 1st 5 minutes of the exposure. Yeah ebay looks pretty dry for sx70 film. I'll try a few other local shops. I had the impression that a gentle but firm action, and I'd see the emulsion twirling beneath the tools?..

That's right, but everything I've read says don't try it until at least two hours after exposure. So, I'd recommend trying again with the same film batch.

Gay Larson · Jul 15, 2005

I'm no expert but I believe you are supposed to be able to manipulate it immediately.

Alex Hawley · Jul 15, 2005

Gay Larson said:
I'm no expert but I believe you are supposed to be able to manipulate it immediately.

I'm not the expert either Gay. Where's Shmoo?

ann · Jul 16, 2005

I am not sharon, however, one can manipulate a few minutes after the image appears, or one can wait hours.
You can start moving the emuslion before you can see the image fully or wait until it is fully visiable.

One day i took a shot to show a student who was having problems , after showing her a few tips, we went on with the major thurst of the class which black and white printing. Later in the day, in fact almost 9 hours later, i decided on a whim to see what would happen to the image that had just been sitting on around on a shelve.
It would still move.
This is one of the fun things about this process, it is really up to the users.

A general tip,
start with the lightest colors first, leaving the black's until last.

Alex Hawley · Jul 16, 2005

Thanks Ann!

donbga · Jul 16, 2005

ann said:
I am not sharon, however, one can manipulate a few minutes after the image appears, or one can wait hours.
You can start moving the emuslion before you can see the image fully or wait until it is fully visiable.

One day i took a shot to show a student who was having problems , after showing her a few tips, we went on with the major thurst of the class which black and white printing. Later in the day, in fact almost 9 hours later, i decided on a whim to see what would happen to the image that had just been sitting on around on a shelve.
It would still move.
This is one of the fun things about this process, it is really up to the users.

A general tip,
start with the lightest colors first, leaving the black's until last.

From my experience with Polaroid SX-70 manipulation letting the print set for at least 30 or forty minutes works quite well. Manipulation immediatelly after exposure in my view doesn't allow as much control (the internal emulsion is still quite gooeey) as I would prefer. I've also worked on prints that have set for as long as 12 hours after gently heating them on a cooking griddle.

But I'm no expert here, you may wish to check Katheline Carr's webpage for more info as she is generally regarded as one of the recognized experts with SX-70 manipulations.

http://www.kathleencarr.com/artwork/polaroid_manipulations/

There isn't a lot of how to info there but her work can be inspirational.

Good luck,

Don Bryant

Sean · Jul 16, 2005

well, there is absolutely nothing "gooey" about the sx-70 film i ended up with so more confirmation for me it's not a good batch.. I'll check that site out..

Shmoo · Jul 19, 2005

It seems that (assuming you have a good batch of Time-Zero film), if you manipulate it soon after taking the image, you're more likely to get the white substrata popping thru, so if you're not getting that, it's probably a bad batch.

The longer you wait to manipulate it, the more it seems to "blend" colors rather than break them up. I've used a hairdryer when it becomes difficult to manipulate the image. Good luck!

S

photomc · Sep 19, 2005

UPDATE!! GOOD NEWS

Hello Everyone, just got an email update from Kathleen Carr that states that the problem with Time-Zero (SX70) film has been fixed. She goes on to mention that some dealers are telling customers that the film has been discontinued, which is not true. To find out which lot numbers do not work with manipulation vs the new lot numbers contact Polaroid Express, and you can order it online at www.polaroid.com or call their Technical Assistance Hotline at 800-225-1618.

Alex Hawley · Sep 19, 2005

Thanks Mike. That's good news and a good effort from Polaroid in respect to their customer base.

ann · Sep 20, 2005

just an fyi, there is a limit to the amount one can purchase.

There have been rumors for years regarding the dimize of this product.

Jim Chinn · Sep 20, 2005

Is not the only camera application for Time Zero film an SX-70? I think Polaroid has done a pretty admirable job keeping a product with such niche users going. And it also speaks to the dedication of those who use the film for manipulations, lifts, slide copy work etc, that they buy the film in enough quantity to make it worth while for Polaroid.

I recently picked up a pair of mint SX-70s at an estate sale for next to nothing, and will be sending some cash Polaroid's way for film. I always have liked the color palette of Time Zero. A somewhat moody look with the right lighting. Not quite as garish as the 600 film. Reminds me a lot of the Ektachrome I remember from 20 years ago.

it will be interesting to see what kind of looks I get out shooting with the camera, especially in social settings.

The only bad thing about it is that I will now be tempted to delve into the darkside to make scans and reproductions in larger pixelgraph sizes.

Shmoo · Sep 20, 2005

Actually, I think you can modify a Polaroid 600 camera (ND .6 filter over the meter & use card stock to help the pack slide into the camera) if you want to use Time-Zero film...but I've never tried it. It's mentioned in Kathleen Carr's book.

ann · Sep 20, 2005

it is easy to do. If you already have the one step 600 give it a try.

I like the sx-70 cameras because they have a glass lens rather than plastic/

Donald Qualls · Sep 21, 2005

You're exactly correct, Shmoo -- you're correcting from ISO 640 to 160, so ND .75 would be exactly correct, but .6 is as close as you can get (you may have to set the lighten-darken a bit toward dark to make up the difference). You can also trim the two little nubs off the end of the film pack that slides into the camera -- this modification and the card method work both ways, also allowing 600 film to work in the SX-70 cameras (for exposure correction on these, you want the filter over the lens instead of the meter aperture). A 2 stop ND over the lens makes focusing rather difficult with the SLR cameras, however...

BTW, Ann, the SLR-680 (for 600 film) has the same lens as the SX-70 models, if you can find one; the only functional difference between this camera and the last SX-70 version is the film speed setting in the electronics. I'd like to get one of these, just to use as is; the 600 Platinum film is nicer looking than the Time-Zero, IMO, for plain old instant snapshots, and the built-in strobe is awfully handy.

ann · Sep 21, 2005

thanks for the info. however, i have several sx 70's both with flash, and only do manipulations with the film so would have no use for another camera.

Alex Hawley · Sep 21, 2005

Donald Qualls said:
BTW, Ann, the SLR-680 (for 600 film) has the same lens as the SX-70 models, if you can find one; the only functional difference between this camera and the last SX-70 version is the film speed setting in the electronics. I'd like to get one of these, just to use as is; the 600 Platinum film is nicer looking than the Time-Zero, IMO, for plain old instant snapshots, and the built-in strobe is awfully handy.

I've seen several 680 polaroids come up on E-bay in the last few months.

kswatapug · Sep 22, 2005

I've found this situation (the film chemistry change) interesting. I must have been very fortunate because throughout the reports of the new recipe, I've reordered SX-70 film packs (10 at a time) three times and have not encountered any recalcitrant emulsion. The emulsion expiration dates on the film delivered have been beyond the "trouble" dates in every instance. I wonder who (besides Sean) was getting the new, less-maleable emulsion.

BTW Sean, you might find even the stiffer emulsion yields to your efforts with the assistance of a pancake griddle. I put the temperature on "warm" and rest my hand on a magazine (most recently the latest issue of WIRED) to insulate it from the heat and use a small block of wood to hold the polaroid in place whilst I do my scribbling. Mind you, don't walk away and leave the setup to cook or create a fire hazard.

ann · Sep 22, 2005

We had issues with the film, and this includes about 6 people in this area.

We did have some sucess when putting the images in a 350 degree oven, but this is not what is normal and even tried a heating pad, which can be used with the films that had the old emulsion.

You just had good luck.

And until Polaroid notified me that they had the corrected film in stock i stopped buying any.

kswatapug · Sep 22, 2005

Thanks Ann. I'm glad they resolved the problem and even happier I somehow dodged the bullet with all my orders.

I don't relish cooking my film to 350 degrees to get it to cooperate.

Donald Qualls · Sep 22, 2005

Alex Hawley said:
I've seen several 680 polaroids come up on E-bay in the last few months.

Yep, they're common cameras -- lots of them out there, though it's tricky to tell if they'll work or not, short of just putting film in 'em.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen an eBay seller yet who didn't want money, and money for equipment (even in the $10 category) isn't available at this time. Can't afford film for 'em either, so it's not a big deal...

Evgeny S · Sep 30, 2005

Jim Chinn said:
Is not the only camera application for Time Zero film an SX-70? I think Polaroid has done a pretty admirable job keeping a product with such niche users going. And it also speaks to the dedication of those who use the film for manipulations, lifts, slide copy work etc, that they buy the film in enough quantity to make it worth while for Polaroid....

Nice words, especially when take into account this news http://www.polaroid.com/sx70/en/index.html.

From Polaroid: SX-70 Manipulation Issues

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