From Paterson to Jobo

ericB&W · Jun 20, 2022

I develope color negatives with Paterson tank with good results, also Ilford XP2 comes out well
without color nuances, leave the thank in temperature controlled water and spin continously with the small
plastic stick, use 500 ml of Bellini c-41 kit .
Now i'd like to split the pure components in 4 parts so to prepare 250 ml each time i need, so to optimize the usage
and to have it for several months, but i will need to buy the Jobo thank with the Jobo hand roller to develop in orizontal way
with just 250 ml of liquid .
I've seen that takes about 5'' to pour the solution in the jobo, now i wanted to know if
these five seconds, when the tank is vertical , could create a strip in the lower part of
the film that remains visibly overdeveloped at sight respect to the whole film surface that gets in contact with the solution some
seconds later .

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2022

ericB&W said:
I develope color negatives with Paterson tank with good results, also Ilford XP2 comes out well
without color nuances, leave the thank in temperature controlled water and spin continously with the small
plastic stick, use 500 ml of Bellini c-41 kit .
Now i'd like to split the pure components in 4 parts so to prepare 250 ml each time i need, so to optimize the usage
and to have it for several months, but i will need to buy the Jobo thank with the Jobo hand roller to develop in orizontal way
with just 250 ml of liquid .
I've seen that takes about 5'' to pour the solution in the jobo, now i wanted to know if
these five seconds, when the tank is vertical , could create a strip in the lower part of
the film that remains visibly overdeveloped at sight respect to the whole film surface that gets in contact with the solution some
seconds later .

Well that indicates that you need to change your screen name too.

xtol121 · Jun 20, 2022

Hi Eric,

Just wanted to caution using 250ml chemistry for anything more than 2 rolls of film. Trying to squeeze more out of that volume and you risk chemical exhaustion which could lead to hard to trace color shifts. Some members on this forum even suggest only using 200ml+ per roll which is more in line with Kodak’s suggestion in the Z-131 bible.

A solution for avoiding streaks would be to add the chemistry while the tank is horizontal and rotating. Difficult with a manual roller base, but probably not impossible. I use an automatic roller base and a 100ml syringe with tube to inject 70ml of RA-4 developer when I’m doing color prints. Works great for prints, but you’d need to find a comically large syringe to do 250ml. Or maybe a bendy funnel?

Plan to do some temperature testing as you don’t have the water bath for your tank and temp drift will occur. Z-131 explains how to do this in greater detail, but basically you measure the starting temp and ending temp of your chemicals and calculate the average. Adjust your starting temp until the average is 100ºF.

Good luck!

AgX · Jun 20, 2022

ericB&W said:
I will need to buy the Jobo tank with the Jobo hand roller to develop in horizontal way
with just 250 ml of liquid.

You basically can omit a commercial roller base, as you can roll a tank along a plain table edge (if tank is tight), or on two bars, or on a board with four furniture roller mounted upside down.

Such board you also can place in a tempering bath.

ericB&W · Jun 20, 2022

xtol121 said:
Hi Eric,

Just wanted to caution using 250ml chemistry for anything more than 2 rolls of film. Trying to squeeze more out of that volume and you risk chemical exhaustion which could lead to hard to trace color shifts. Some members on this forum even suggest only using 200ml+ per roll which is more in line with Kodak’s suggestion in the Z-131 bible.

A solution for avoiding streaks would be to add the chemistry while the tank is horizontal and rotating. Difficult with a manual roller base, but probably not impossible. I use an automatic roller base and a 100ml syringe with tube to inject 70ml of RA-4 developer when I’m doing color prints. Works great for prints, but you’d need to find a comically large syringe to do 250ml. Or maybe a bendy funnel?

Plan to do some temperature testing as you don’t have the water bath for your tank and temp drift will occur. Z-131 explains how to do this in greater detail, but basically you measure the starting temp and ending temp of your chemicals and calculate the average. Adjust your starting temp until the average is 100ºF.

Good luck!

It's enough for me to make 8 rolls from 1 liter, i'll try 2 rolls each
250 ml and throw away, i don't make too much color .
The important thing is that don't want to waste films, when i make 1 liter and the exaustion time gets nearer i'm pushed to take photos even if i don't really have something to photograph .
If splitted pure components last for about 6 months , can buy 2 kits a year to make 16 rolls that i use when i really want and have always fresh solutions .

ericB&W · Jun 20, 2022

AgX said:
You basically can omit a commercial roller base, as you can roll a tank along a plain table edge (if tank is tight), or on two bars, or on a board with four furniture roller mounted upside down.

Such board you also can place in a tempering bath.

I'll try to find something that works, i use a roner and it needs a certain level of water,
must find a system that remains stable in water with the thank that rolls over.

pentaxuser · Jun 20, 2022

ericB&W. I have developed C41 using the Jobo horizontal motorised rollers and the Jobo suggested quantities of liquid. I simply poured in the liquid when the tank was vertical and then placed it horizontally and started the motor. I am not sure how long it took to get the liquid into the tank but however long it was I can say I never noticed any problem with the tank being vertical for the few seconds that was required to pour the liquid into it

Was I just lucky? Well I think this to be highly unlikely over a lot of occasions that I did it so I wouldn't worry about it

pentaxuser

AgX · Jun 20, 2022

pentaxuser said:
I have developed C41 using the Jobo horizontal motorised rollers and the Jobo suggested quantities of liquid. I simply poured in the liquid when the tank was vertical and then placed it horizontally and started the motor. I never noticed any problem with the tank being vertical for the few seconds that was required to pour the liquid into it

Was I just lucky? Well I think this to be highly unlikely over a lot of occasions that I did it so I wouldn't worry about it

You overlooked that all none-lift Jobo processors work this way.

pentaxuser · Jun 20, 2022

AgX said:
You overlooked that all none-lift Jobo processors work this way.

True. The OP seemed worried about the problem of the time taken to pour in the liquid while the tank was vertical. I was trying to reassure him that this wasn't a problem in my case

We seem to see several posts on how to avoid a line on the film because for a few seconds the film or part of the film gets a few seconds more development when pouring in the developer.

My experience is that even in a short time of 3 minutes 15 secs as in the case of C41 it is not a problem and in the case of b&w film at development times of say 8-12 minutes or more mins the difference is totally inconsequential

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2022

xtol121 said:
Hi Eric,

Just wanted to caution using 250ml chemistry for anything more than 2 rolls of film. Trying to squeeze more out of that volume and you risk chemical exhaustion which could lead to hard to trace color shifts. Some members on this forum even suggest only using 200ml+ per roll which is more in line with Kodak’s suggestion in the Z-131 bible.

A solution for avoiding streaks would be to add the chemistry while the tank is horizontal and rotating. Difficult with a manual roller base, but probably not impossible. I use an automatic roller base and a 100ml syringe with tube to inject 70ml of RA-4 developer when I’m doing color prints. Works great for prints, but you’d need to find a comically large syringe to do 250ml. Or maybe a bendy funnel?

Plan to do some temperature testing as you don’t have the water bath for your tank and temp drift will occur. Z-131 explains how to do this in greater detail, but basically you measure the starting temp and ending temp of your chemicals and calculate the average. Adjust your starting temp until the average is 100ºF.

Good luck!

That is why I use 500 ml replenished XOL in my Jobo 1500 tanks regardless of the number of rolls being developed. That way the film is not short changed and none of the developer is wasted.

AgX · Jun 21, 2022

pentaxuser said:
We seem to see several posts on how to avoid a line on the film because for a few seconds the film or part of the film gets a few seconds more development when pouring in the developer.

My experience is that even in a short time of 3 minutes 15 secs as in the case of C41 it is not a problem and in the case of b&w film at development times of say 8-12 minutes or more mins the difference is totally inconsequential

Basically there is such issue as Jobo at their classic paper drums have installed a beaker that allows the fluid only to access the rest of the tank at tilting, not already at filling. This seemingly was omitted at the otherwise similar film drums as already the paper-drum beaker would block at least one film reel and moreover for film processsing more bath volume is necessary, and thus an even larger beaker.

mshchem · Jun 21, 2022

The OP may also consider a small stainless tank. 250ml volume for 1 roll of 35mm, develop vertical, tank in water bath. Would need to run two times using the same 250ml of solutions. This is the old way before the Jobo processor.

pentaxuser · Jun 21, 2022

AgX said:
Basically there is such issue as Jobo at their classic paper drums have installed a beaker that allows the fluid only to access the rest of the tank at tilting, not already at filling. This seemingly was omitted at the otherwise similar film drums as already the paper-drum beaker would block at least one film reel and moreover for film processsing more bath volume is necessary, and thus an even larger beaker.

True but I wonder if this is because in the case of the RA4 print it only takes if I recall correctly 35 or 45 secs using the temperature that the Jobo processor allows the developer to be heated to. Whereas in the case of film especially b&w the times are much longer?

What might be interesting would be RA4 not using the paper-drum beaker beaker at 20C to see if there was a problem

pentaxuser

AgX · Jun 21, 2022

A small correction: these drums with a beaker where designed in the 70's, thus processes of those years are of relevance.

ericB&W · Jun 22, 2022

pentaxuser said:
True. The OP seemed worried about the problem of the time taken to pour in the liquid while the tank was vertical. I was trying to reassure him that this wasn't a problem in my case

We seem to see several posts on how to avoid a line on the film because for a few seconds the film or part of the film gets a few seconds more development when pouring in the developer.

My experience is that even in a short time of 3 minutes 15 secs as in the case of C41 it is not a problem and in the case of b&w film at development times of say 8-12 minutes or more mins the difference is totally inconsequential

pentaxuser

In fact i think so, 5 /6 seconds are about the 3% in 195'' of the whole process,
should have no impact on the final density .

mshchem · Jun 22, 2022

AgX said:
A small correction: these drums with a beaker where designed in the 70's, thus processes of those years are of relevance.

Yes, exactly CP-5, 5 solutions, 7 minutes and that was super fast for the early 70's.

koraks · Jul 3, 2022

pentaxuser said:
My experience is that even in a short time of 3 minutes 15 secs as in the case of C41 it is not a problem

Dito; I always develop my color film this way and there's no problem with uneven development due to this approach.

From Paterson to Jobo

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