Freshest Film Stocks UK

[Lemmythink]

I'm aiming to come back to using film. My use might be very erratic, so I'm after really fresh stocks as they might be hanging around for a while!
Who have you found to be selling the freshest films in the UK?
Mainly looking at Delta 100/400 Maybe HP5. All 120 but tempted to dabble with 35mm.

 

[Agulliver]

Given that those stocks will likely not deteriorate much it's not something that most users are concerned with. Though with your interest being primarily in 120, you do want to avoid keeping it for too many years as the modern backing paper certainly ain't what it used to be.

Most Ilford film that I buy seems to have a couple of years to go before the suggested date...regardless of where I purchase it. If the freshest is really important to you, I'd suggest buying from a specialist analogue photography business rather than Amazon or another company which might have small sales volume of film because their main focus is elsewhere.

You can buy from Ilford Photo themselves....but all the "usual suspects" should be offering decently dated film unless they state that it's a special offer on short dated film.

Think of Nik & Trick, Process Supplies, Ag Photographic, Analogue Wonderland, Wex, Firstcall...I am sure I'm forgetting some.

If you do dabble in 35mm you'll find that bigger branches of Boots still sell Ilford B&W 35mm film, usually HP5 and FP4. While it might not be the freshest or cheapest, it is often convenient. And in 135 format those films will last at least a decade beyond their date unless you store them in a greenhouse.

Also consider finding out if you have a proper independent camera shop in your area. The kind that still regularly stocks film. Chances are their film is properly stored and fresh, and you can always ask to be informed when a new delivery of film is received and buy it as fresh as possible.

 

[koraks]

All 120

Don't keep around 120 film for a long time. Backing paper offset problems are very common.

Just buy fresh film from time to time when you're about to use it.

Welcome to Photrio and welcome back to shooting film!

 

[Lemmythink]

Given that those stocks will likely not deteriorate much it's not something that most users are concerned with. Though with your interest being primarily in 120, you do want to avoid keeping it for too many years as the modern backing paper certainly ain't what it used to be.

Most Ilford film that I buy seems to have a couple of years to go before the suggested date...regardless of where I purchase it. If the freshest is really important to you, I'd suggest buying from a specialist analogue photography business rather than Amazon or another company which might have small sales volume of film because their main focus is elsewhere.

You can buy from Ilford Photo themselves....but all the "usual suspects" should be offering decently dated film unless they state that it's a special offer on short dated film.

Think of Nik & Trick, Process Supplies, Ag Photographic, Analogue Wonderland, Wex, Firstcall...I am sure I'm forgetting some.

If you do dabble in 35mm you'll find that bigger branches of Boots still sell Ilford B&W 35mm film, usually HP5 and FP4. While it might not be the freshest or cheapest, it is often convenient. And in 135 format those films will last at least a decade beyond their date unless you store them in a greenhouse.

Also consider finding out if you have a proper independent camera shop in your area. The kind that still regularly stocks film. Chances are their film is properly stored and fresh, and you can always ask to be informed when a new delivery of film is received and buy it as fresh as possible.

I'm not familiar with the usual suspects though. A few names there didn't come up in a search. What is wrong with the backing paper?

 

[Lemmythink]

Don't keep around 120 film for a long time. Backing paper offset problems are very common.

Just buy fresh film from time to time when you're about to use it.

Welcome to Photrio and welcome back to shooting film!

What is "offset"? My immediate thought (registration marks) doesn't deteriorate with time, if that's what you are saying.

 

[koraks]

Interaction effects between the ink of the backing paper and/or the part itself and the film emulsion. This generally results in mottling all over the image or even plainly visible frame numbers and other markings smack in the middle of the image. This should not happen with fresh film (but rarely still does), but the odds increase with adverse storage conditions and time. Hoarding 120 film for the long run, especially past its expiration date, is a risky endeavor as a result.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The current shiny Kodak 120 backing paper is probably a lot more immune to such issues. They had a significant R&D investment in "reinventing the wheel" after their own brief incident.

 

[MattKing]

The natures of modern emulsions and of modern inks play important roles in the issues that arise with backing paper and film.
Many things have changed since the days when there seemed to be fewer problems, including big changes with the film distribution system. And all of those changes interact.
There was a very real possibility that Kodak would have left 120 film entirely if their very expensive R&D work had not finally resulted in the solution they arrived at.
And that solution is a well guarded trade secret, which they won't be likely to share.

 

[koraks]

probably a lot more immune

Until an ingredient buried somewhere deep in the ink changes and then all of a sudden problems pop up with film approaching its expiration date etc. The problem is that the physical contact between a printed paper paper and a highly sensitive emulsion is just inherently iffy, especially given that both the emulsion and especially the paper contain some water that can act as a solvent/molecule vehicle.

 

[250swb]

Given the number of times you can go to your favourite stockist and find film on back order I doubt there is any 'old stock' in the UK. Covid caused a film buying panic and old film from the freezer went onto eBay and sold at extortionate prices. Equally Covid is when the resurgence in film got another boost further leading to temporary shortages from some manufacturers. So I wouldn't even think about the film having a short date on it, just go for the cheapest stockist, and that can often vary from week to week so shop around.

 

[Agulliver]

I'm not familiar with the usual suspects though. A few names there didn't come up in a search. What is wrong with the backing paper?

If a Google search didn't bring up the ones I mentioned above, this list of links may be helpful. I am sure there are other retailers who I've not thought of, and people all have their favourite and disliked businesses. But here are a few who ought to always have "fresh" Ilford B&W 120 film

Ilford Black & White FIlms Archives

Ilford Black & White Films buy them here at Nik & Trick Photo Services, Come to our shop in Folkestone or order here in our online store!

ntphotoworks.com

ILFORD FILM

ILFORD FILM

www.processuk.net

https://www.ag-photolab.co.uk/product-category/shop/film/black-white-film/ilford-black-white-film/

120 Film

Shop at Analogue Wonderland for 120 film in a variety of types like colour, B&W, and more. Medium format film brands available include Ilford, Kodak, Cinestill, and Washi. View our collection of 120 film (medium format). Shop Now!

analoguewonderland.co.uk

Ilford Delta 400 Professional 120 roll film | Wex Photo Video

www.wexphotovideo.com

B & W Film - Film & Film Processing - Firstcall Photographic

B & W Film from Firstcall Photographic.

www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk

Some of these also have physical shops, for example Nik & Trick are in Folkestone and Process Supplies are in Farringdon (London).

The other solution is to find your nearest traditional camera shop and buy over the counter.

Whereabouts are you located? It's possible that members here will know the nearest shops to you.

 

[Lemmythink]

Thanks all for replies. It strikes me as crazy something reliable for probably decades has been suddenly struck down this way.
Also gleaned dry storage (as in silica gel beads) would help avert this, and that Kodak has made an attempt to overcome the problem. What a blow to spend time and money only to have number and gunk on your film! So looks like Kodak will get my money.

I'm in NW UK. I do have a local shop of sorts. Mathers Of Lancashire but there's a problem with the website and I can't reset my password. And I think there's been a problem with online payments.
He is cheap on prices though. £6.80 for 120 HP5 for instance. Just don't fancy non secure payments (over the phone).

Thanks for the list Agulliver

EDIT: What sorts of storage time are these things materialising with?

 

[koraks]

What sorts of storage time are these things materialising with?

Could be a week, could be a year, could be a decade or more. There have been fairly recent reports of brand-new Ilford film (HP5+) exhibiting backing-paper related mottling. When Kodak was hit with this problem, it was also brand new film. But most instances we get to see are with expired film, and film that has been stored under adverse conditions. Especially storing in high temperatures, and storing for extended periods of time after having removed the film from the foil wrapper are contributing factors to problems.

With film that's within date, stored at room temperature and from one of the major manufacturers it's rare to run into these problems.

 

[Lemmythink]

Could be a week, could be a year, could be a decade or more. There have been fairly recent reports of brand-new Ilford film (HP5+) exhibiting backing-paper related mottling. When Kodak was hit with this problem, it was also brand new film. But most instances we get to see are with expired film, and film that has been stored under adverse conditions. Especially storing in high temperatures, and storing for extended periods of time after having removed the film from the foil wrapper are contributing factors to problems.

With film that's within date, stored at room temperature and from one of the major manufacturers it's rare to run into these problems.

Oh it's rare. I got the impression it had become common. Still learning!

 

[250swb]

Thanks all for replies. It strikes me as crazy something reliable for probably decades has been suddenly struck down this way.
Also gleaned dry storage (as in silica gel beads) would help avert this, and that Kodak has made an attempt to overcome the problem. What a blow to spend time and money only to have number and gunk on your film! So looks like Kodak will get my money.

I'm in NW UK. I do have a local shop of sorts. Mathers Of Lancashire but there's a problem with the website and I can't reset my password. And I think there's been a problem with online payments.
He is cheap on prices though. £6.80 for 120 HP5 for instance. Just don't fancy non secure payments (over the phone).

Thanks for the list Agulliver

EDIT: What sorts of storage time are these things materialising with?

It's fanciful to imagine Kodak and Ilford have their own paper processing and coating plants, they don't. So if the manufacturer of the paper changes something in the formula without trials as happened with Ilford it was a year or two before the problem became apparent with film that had been stored for a long time. And to this day Ilford will still replace the faulty film which to me suggests confidence they have the problem solved, and my film use backs this up. If you are worried about expiry dates maybe the answer is to buy less film at any one time so it doesn't become an issue?

 

[Agulliver]

It's more common than it was 20 years ago, which is to say that with zillions of rolls being sold annually one almost never heard of a problem...and now one occasionally hears of a problem in an era when less film is being sold.

And specifically there was a period a few years ago when Kodak 120 film was suffering badly with backing paper issues. I discussed this with Andy Church at Kodak Alaris back in 2020 and he was confident the problem had been solved and at that point in time the last batch of "bad" film would have recently expired. There was also a time a bit more recently when Ilford had issues with 120 backing paper.

It is also much more easy to share stories of problems today. A handful of users post here about mottling on 120 rollfilm and it looks like there's some major issue, when even with the affected Kodak and Ilford batches there have been millions of satisfied users.

Both those problems seem to have been solved but it is still more important these days to shoot your 120 film and get it developed before it expires.

Having said all that, if you do shoot and develop within the expiry date and don't store the film in unfavourable conditions....you are very unlikely to experience any problems.

Has anyone ever had a backing paper problem with Foma? the general QC might not be quite up to Kodak and Ilford standards and the film is less sophisticated but it seems reliable.

 

[Lemmythink]

It's more common than it was 20 years ago, which is to say that with zillions of rolls being sold annually one almost never heard of a problem...and now one occasionally hears of a problem in an era when less film is being sold.

And specifically there was a period a few years ago when Kodak 120 film was suffering badly with backing paper issues. I discussed this with Andy Church at Kodak Alaris back in 2020 and he was confident the problem had been solved and at that point in time the last batch of "bad" film would have recently expired. There was also a time a bit more recently when Ilford had issues with 120 backing paper.

It is also much more easy to share stories of problems today. A handful of users post here about mottling on 120 rollfilm and it looks like there's some major issue, when even with the affected Kodak and Ilford batches there have been millions of satisfied users.

Both those problems seem to have been solved but it is still more important these days to shoot your 120 film and get it developed before it expires.

Having said all that, if you do shoot and develop within the expiry date and don't store the film in unfavourable conditions....you are very unlikely to experience any problems.

Has anyone ever had a backing paper problem with Foma? the general QC might not be quite up to Kodak and Ilford standards and the film is less sophisticated but it seems reliable.

Good points.

 

[retina_restoration]

There are new guidelines when it comes to current production 120 B&W films.

1) do not buy more film than you expect to use before the film's expiration date.
2) keep the film stored in a cool dry location. A moisture-proof container in the fridge is a good choice.
3) do NOT expose your film to extremely warm conditions, as this will accelerate the "wrapper offset" process, leading to damaged film. Damp conditions can cause problems too, if any condensation forms on the film in-camera.
4) though you will pay more for Kodak films, it appears that Kodak has largely solved the wrapper offset problem on their 120 films in the past few years. Choose Kodak if you are unsure that you will use up all of the film before its expiration date.
5) it's possible to safely use most 120 B&W films up to a year or even 18 months past the expiration date if you have stored them in the fridge for the time you have had them. I am currently using 120 rolls of Delta 400 that are 6 months past their expiration date, having been stored in the fridge for 2 years, and these films have not exhibited any wrapper offset damage.

If you follow these suggestions, you shouldn't have to deal with negatives damaged by aging processes inherent in modern films.

 

[Lemmythink]

You know, it's been so long, what are expiration dates like? Eg, I get a roll of HP5 factory fresh, what are we looking at? 3 years? 5 years? 8 years?

 

[MattKing]

You know, it's been so long, what are expiration dates like? Eg, I get a roll of HP5 factory fresh, what are we looking at? 3 years? 5 years? 8 years?

Just over two years seems to be the current situation.

 

[Agulliver]

what @MattKing says is absolutely correct and it goes for all film manufacturers.

I don't think there was ever 5 or 8 years on photo film, but in the past 3 years was not uncommon. This might be due to a tightening in EU regulations when the UK was still a member, basically the manufacturer has to guarantee that the film is "as new" if exposed and processed before the use by date. So they're a bit more cautious.

 

[MattKing]

What Agulliver said - plus the fact that distribution channels are now much less controlled by the major manufacturers. No longer fleets of climate controlled shipping trucks.

 

[pentaxuser]

Oh it's rare. I got the impression it had become common. Still learning!

Just out of interest from what sources did you get the impression it had become common?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Prest_400]

There are new guidelines when it comes to current production 120 B&W films.

1) do not buy more film than you expect to use before the film's expiration date.
2) keep the film stored in a cool dry location. A moisture-proof container in the fridge is a good choice.
3) do NOT expose your film to extremely warm conditions, as this will accelerate the "wrapper offset" process, leading to damaged film. Damp conditions can cause problems too, if any condensation forms on the film in-camera.
4) though you will pay more for Kodak films, it appears that Kodak has largely solved the wrapper offset problem on their 120 films in the past few years. Choose Kodak if you are unsure that you will use up all of the film before its expiration date.
5) it's possible to safely use most 120 B&W films up to a year or even 18 months past the expiration date if you have stored them in the fridge for the time you have had them. I am currently using 120 rolls of Delta 400 that are 6 months past their expiration date, having been stored in the fridge for 2 years, and these films have not exhibited any wrapper offset damage.

If you follow these suggestions, you shouldn't have to deal with negatives damaged by aging processes inherent in modern films.

I would second this. Had mottling on 2020 exp Delta 120 that developed in the 2.5 years after it expired, no problems in 2021 shoot and developed roll, notable mottling in 2022. Film was room stored since I bought the rolls in 2019. As lower temperature slows chemical reactions, it might also help out with the offset with current film.

About the 2 year expiration date, interestingly I have seen 3+ year expiration for 35mm Kentmere 100, whereas the dates are shorter with 120 and Delta (specifically 3200 for sensitivity reasons). I would wager that despite the tighter regulations (35mm) ISO 400 and lower B&W film still keeps quite well past the 2 year dates. Caveat for the backing paper in 120; But I had no issues with 1-2 year expired HP5 and Delta 400.
Delta 3200 will fog with age due to sensitivity.

Ilford themselves seem to sell film directly off their website. I recently read a user mentioning them having a "hidden" black friday sale with 10-15% discounts off their website.

 

[MattKing]

Ilford themselves seem to sell film directly off their website. I recently read a user mentioning them having a "hidden" black friday sale with 10-15% discounts off their website.

Harman distributes their products in the UK.
They do not distribute their products in Canada, the USA and some other parts of the world - they contract with others to deal with those areas.
The promotions they do are generally restricted to the areas of the world that they are also distributing to.