Fresh Ilfochrome paper

[Bob Carnie]

I am concerned only about pigment process, in fact over the weekend I taught a course on tri colour gum over palladium, where we started to use
an assortment of pigments other than cmy only.

what was very interesting is when we started using opaque pigments in conjunction with a shadow only negative.. the result was nothing short of remarkable
We used blue over the palladium, basically a negative that only showed the deepest of shadows, so the dmax jumped right off the page, we also spent a lot of time with
the midtone negative which we added different pigments with some incredible shifts in print contrast and tonality very much worth persuing....

maybe I should stop as now I am hi jacking the thread, but could you ever envision.. pigment transfer done using a matrix type material and rolling on like dye transfer??

what I like about the gum process over carbon is the fact that the gum sinks into the palladium and is not a tissue layer on top... the relief is quite compelling once you build up the layers.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Back to the original post... this paper will go very fast at this price.. I would imagine that a couple of NA printers I am familiar with are already all over this offer.

If you're having serious Ilfochrome withdrawal symptoms AND are very wealthy AND are able to source the chemicals, you just might be interested in this offer on ebay from a seller in Russia:

ILFORD Ilfochrome (Cibachrome) classic paper, roll 22in x98ft

Price:US $700.00

"Frome the last production session.Use before Jul. 2016 and still storage in freezer. We have more than 80 rolls for sale."

The auction ends in less than 10 hours, but I'm sure they'll relist if they haven't sold all 80.

As for me, I can only drool...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Of course I've thought about it, Bob. But the real holy grail would be discovering a true pigment process that can be silver-sensitized and
actually enlarged. That ain't Fresson (carbon arc), and it ain't Carbro, where only the separation prints could be enlarged. It's just that so many of us have too many irons in the fire already, and somebody would have to basically become a Thomas Edision willing to attempt hundreds of different angle to the question, just like finding the filament for a practical light bulb. Using a hardened gelatin relief to roll ink
under pressure has almost certainly been done before, probably several ways, but matrix film would not be the answer because it is very fragile, soft emulsion - a feature necessary to differentially soak up dye. But hardening some other gelatin tweak using formalin or glyaxol
would be simple enough. Quality results? One color would have to thoroughly dry before you could apply another. And what a smudgy mess. It would probably look like Kwik Print. I'd rather see a true layered process like color carbon at projection sensitivity. But people have already thought about that one for a century already. I've personally stayed away from all this stuff because I've seen too many people working in UV processes get sick. I suspect dichromates. One more reason to find an alternative. And I'm more interested in new
pigments anyway, specifically transoxides. But there's nothing equivalent to a process magenta yet, and the only realistic process green
has a minimum order of twenty tons!! The idea is permanent colorants so tiny they appear fully transparent like dyes. But micro-ground
regular pigments in industrial quantities, realistic quad process options, do exist, but not in art stores; so don't expect any forum chatter to
be aware of them yet. I'll let someone else see if they can figure out a serious nontoxic sensitizer option. A number of people are already
fiddling with that problem. I briefly searched a number of medical patents related to non-dichromate gelatin cross-linking; but some of the
organic chem involved were far worse than dichromate itself! Maybe somebody will get diazo sensitizer to work more efficiently.

 

[afriman]

I see the price of the paper has been reduced to $550. According to the seller, there are 5 rolls left.

P3X chemistry starter additive kit (14 liters) is $330.
P3X chemistry replenisher kit (50 liters) is $1,600.

Apparently, the chemicals can also be bought separately.

For one-shot use, what does one need -- starter, replenisher or both?

 

[Wayne]

I wonder if those are specialized roller transport chemicals...I never used starter or replenisher.

 

[DREW WILEY]

One shot, one only needs starter. The problem with P3X (versus P3) is that it's intended for FAST automated higher temps (roller transport),
so might be tricky to use in drums.

 

[zenfoto]

Some Clarifications

Hey all,

I haven't been on this forum in quite awhile but saw this Ilfochrome thread and felt compelled to respond.

As someone intimately and actively still involved in the Ilfochrome printing process, I thought I'd clarify on a few points. There's two eBay auctions for 20 and 22-inch rolls. There's 80 rolls of the 20-inch available, 5 of the 22-inch. Shipping from Moscow would, yes, be expensive though the shop owner claims (over emails) it wouldn't be. I may test one 20-inch roll during winter. And frozen, the paper will last well beyond the expiration date with minimal crossover. I recently printed 2013 emulsion (kept frozen since purchase) with little variance. In fact, up until a few months ago, paper from the final run had been available from the original producer. I acquired 50-inch rolls that I cut into sheets with a Rollma paper trimmer.

Chemistry has been available by special order and, of course, expensive. I have some sailing overseas now. And it's not in liquid form. Message me directly if you'd like contact information. I can't guarantee anything but happy to pass information along privately. I use one-shot P3 chemistry in a Jobo, btw.

I contrast mask many of my prints with TMAX and have even explored LVT output of digital files (from a D800e) with really nice results. I think it's an exceptional time to be an analog enthusiast or professional with a world of hybrid options out there. The prohibitive factor for many, unfortunately, is cost.

And, while a lot of chromes have, indeed, been discontinued, I recently purchased fresh Velvia 50 (4x5 and 220) direct from Japan over eBay. Transaction and shipping was ridiculously smooth and easy. I had the film in less than two weeks.

Cheers.

Oh, and Ilfochrome well printed IMHO still exceeds anything digital. FujiFlex Glossy comes close until you compare the two side-by-side under proper lighting. Beautiful prints can be made by almost any medium now but having those dyes directly in the Ilfochrome just adds a little extra dimensional magic.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Glad to hear someone is still printing Ciba. If you are forced to switch to analog Fuji Supergloss and color neg, I have masking protocols that
deliver the same level of punch and general look as Ciba. But such masking is VERY different from Ciba masking except for the commonality of the same tools and masking films. Masking for negs is more like gentle power steering rather than using a sledgehammer as in Ciba. The nice thing is that the Fuji paper is much faster, so you don't need a hot "nuke" colorhead like with Ciba for big prints. Lower utility bills. I have family in Bend as well as Portland, so am up there from time to time. What I haven't fully ironed out is making internegs from chromes to print on Supergloss. I've had some success; but with the cost of 8x10 Portra 160 skyrocketing (the film necessary for good internegs), it's a potential pathway I might just give up on except on smaller formats.

 

[roots]

Hi all,

I am in contact with the company who still produces the P3/P30 chemistry on demand. They offer a powder version, the vakuum sealed packs are supposed to last considerably longer than the liquid chemistry. However, due to the extra trouble with production, their minimum order volume is 40 kits equiv. to P30.2 for approx. 100 EUR per kit. As this is a bit too much for an amateur like me, I'm curious if there are people out there who may want to join in for an order. Anyone?!


Cheers,
roots