Fresh HP5 fogged on delivery....

reggie · Oct 26, 2006

Hi:

I ordered a 100-sheet box of 4x5 HP5 from B&H last week. It is dated May 2008, batch number is 08AHK101/05-2. Carrier was UPS, 2-day service. I also ordered a fresh 100-sheet box of FP4 and it was shipped in the same box as the HP5.

I started doing some Zone System film speed tests. The HP5 film is badly fogged. I tested one sheet from each of the 25-sheet packs in the box. Each sheet exhibited the same fogging. It looks like it was fogged twice. First an overall fog and then a second fogging that left a pattern on each sheet.

The FP4 was not fogged, at least not to a degree noticeable to the eye.

Other than a huge x-ray blast by the carrier, I cannot think of anything that would do this. I have never had this happen before to any film from any store or from any carrier.

If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate hearing about it. If you have any HP5 with the same batch number, please check it out and see if it may have happened at the factory, not likely but possible.

-R

JBrunner · Oct 26, 2006

Xray often (not always) leave a distinct sine wave pattern of fog. Does the pattern resemble anything like the examples at the bottom of the page?

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

reggie · Oct 26, 2006

JBrunner said:
Xray often (not always) leave a distinct sine wave pattern of fog. Does the pattern resemble anything like the examples at the bottom of the page?

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

Hi:

Thanks for the interesting link.

The fog does not look like the example from Kodak. There is a somewhat dense overall fog (about .20 on the densitometer, I'd guess). Then on top of that is a layer of fog that looks like something was laid on top of the film and then fogged. The item that was laid over the top cound have been almost anything really. The 2nd fog is quite dense.

It's very odd and costly(!).

-R

Bromo33333 · Oct 26, 2006

reggie said:
Hi:

Thanks for the interesting link.

The fog does not look like the example from Kodak. There is a somewhat dense overall fog (about .20 on the densitometer, I'd guess). Then on top of that is a layer of fog that looks like something was laid on top of the film and then fogged. The item that was laid over the top cound have been almost anything really. The 2nd fog is quite dense.

It's very odd and costly(!).

-R

See if you can get your money back or get it replaced?

(Sometimes a mail order house will refund/replace a defect like that. I know Freestyle would)

Dave Parker · Oct 26, 2006

Have you emailed B&H? to see if there may have been something that went wrong? Normally when you get a product that exhibits problems the best place to go is the vendor you purchased it from, B&H is normally a stand up company and work very hard to make sure the customer is happy with their purchases.

Dave

Gerald Koch · Oct 27, 2006

JBrunner said:
Xray often (not always) leave a distinct sine wave pattern of fog. Does the pattern resemble anything like the examples at the bottom of the page?

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

The Kodak example is for roll or 35mm film and is caused by self shielding of the rolled film. You will no see the sine wave pattern in sheet film to which the original poster was referring.

reggie · Oct 27, 2006

Dave Parker said:
Have you emailed B&H? to see if there may have been something that went wrong? Normally when you get a product that exhibits problems the best place to go is the vendor you purchased it from, B&H is normally a stand up company and work very hard to make sure the customer is happy with their purchases.

Dave

Hi:

I called B&H this morning and they arranged a product return for me. No hassles at all. They do want to see some samples of the fogged film.

It is pretty odd that two films in the saame box arrived with one fogged and the other not. It couldn't have been the carrier. I wonder if B&H has more fogged HP5 in their wharehouse?

If any of you have purchased HP5 Plus from B&H (or anywhere else) lately and it is sitting around unopened, you might want to test a few sheets just in case.

-R

Gerald Koch · Oct 27, 2006

reggie said:
It is pretty odd that two films in the saame box arrived with one fogged and the other not. It couldn't have been the carrier.

It's not odd if you consider that B&H may have gotten their HP5 and FP4 in separate shipments. I would think this is more probable then them receiving both films in the same shipment.

pentaxuser · Oct 27, 2006

Hopefully B&H will contact Ilford if they are sure that the fogging isn't caused by anything after it arrived from Ilford.

Based on our visit in June this year, I'd say that Ilford's QC is first class but I am sure that Simon would want to know of any issue if there is any chance it might have originated in the factory.

In these cases Ilford's problem, unless B&H can say the problem is theirs, is that it always reflects badly on the manufacturer even if it isn't the manufacturer's fault.

pentaxuser

reggie · Oct 27, 2006

pentaxuser said:
Hopefully B&H will contact Ilford if they are sure that the fogging isn't caused by anything after it arrived from Ilford.

Based on our visit in June this year, I'd say that Ilford's QC is first class but I am sure that Simon would want to know of any issue if there is any chance it might have originated in the factory.

In these cases Ilford's problem, unless B&H can say the problem is theirs, is that it always reflects badly on the manufacturer even if it isn't the manufacturer's fault.

pentaxuser

I'm trying to be careful and not sound like I'm trying to reflect badly on anyone. It is still possible that this is 'user error'.

I am double checking my findings now. I located another 4x5 and I just exposed some of the same HP5 in this camera in case there are some issues with the camera back. This camera is a Canham that is in great shape. The original tests were done on an older Wista. I'll post again after I develop the film.

-R

Jadedoto · Oct 27, 2006

Instead of using another camera, it might be more effective to develop an unexposed sheet..

reggie · Oct 27, 2006

Well, it looks like it is the camera back. I used a new 4x5 holder with the Canham and got perfectly even densities with the HP5. I'll cancel the refund from B&H. Shooting FP4 in the older camera with used holders shows no fog whatsoever, but the HP5 fogs under the exact same conditions. So the extra 2 stops film speed gets fogged by the back.

-R

reggie · Nov 4, 2006

I fixed the camera back problem. I bought my friend a new Shen-Hao 4x5 for Christmas.

I think the springs on the Wista back weakened over the years and may need replacing. It is a little too easy to lift the back and slide in a holder. I don't thing the spring really locks it in place and holds it. That is just a guess, but the problem is defenitely with the back. A light test in the bellows shows no light leaks where the back seals to the camera.

-R

Fresh HP5 fogged on delivery....

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