Freezing Powdered Film Developer: XTOL and ID11 possible ?

Hello,

I have had some old XTOL (the old good stuff, not the new ones with the "Trade Concern") go bad recently (stored in tropical heat and humidity) for a few years and I was wondering if any of you have had luck in freezing unmixed developers for long term storage. Are there any possible downsides to doing this such as components refusing to go back into solution etc ? I would think that is unlikely but photographic chemistry is a complicated thing and there is a lot of experience here, so thought I would ask.

Thank You,
Santanu

Probably wouldn't help.
Keeping it in a cool and dry environment would be more likely to help.
The failure is likely to be due to failure of the packaging.

I doubt temperature matters much. Keeping air and moisture out are the key. Vacuum seal them and store in an air-conditioned home/office, and they should keep indefinitely. I have used some 15 year old XTOL lately without any issue (was not vacuum sealed, simply stored in a cabinet at home).

I think your packaging failed too. I've lived in Hawaii, all over the Gulf Coast, Florida, etc (Florida was the worst for humidity and heat) and never had an issue using and storing ancient packages and cans of Mic-X, D76, Dektol, etc. It's the NEW stuff I won't buy anymore because of bad packaging that cost me a fair amount of money because they were bad right out of the package.

The Xtol I'm finishing up now expired in 2002, and was mixed in 2020. It's been working fine in replenishment.

As suggested, temperature (within reason) isn't likely to be a problem, but humidity and oxygen might be if the packaging is compromised or imperfect to begin with.

Thank you all for your responses. The packages were stored in a location where maximum indoor temperatures are unlikely to have crossed 32 degrees celcius for much of the year but humidity would have been rather high, easily over 70% RH for much of the year. I am assuming that a few years of this combined with some package failure led to the problem. I will try sealing in metal foil bags, and storing with silica gel. Hopefully that should do it.

momus said:

I think your packaging failed too. I've lived in Hawaii, all over the Gulf Coast, Florida, etc (Florida was the worst for humidity and heat) and never had an issue using and storing ancient packages and cans of Mic-X, D76, Dektol, etc. It's the NEW stuff I won't buy anymore because of bad packaging that cost me a fair amount of money because they were bad right out of the package.

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This was the old stuff which had significantly better packaging than the new ones, which have really flimsy ones. I have about 15 packets of the "trade concern" stuff (which I have not used yet) and am trying to figure a properly packed XTOL clone/replacement. But I am a bit concerned about the possibility that even the old packaging might have had issues.

Danner said:

I doubt temperature matters much. Keeping air and moisture out are the key. Vacuum seal them and store in an air-conditioned home/office, and they should keep indefinitely. I have used some 15 year old XTOL lately without any issue (was not vacuum sealed, simply stored in a cabinet at home).

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What was the humidity level in your cabinet?

For my job I'm responsible for two whole store rooms full of chemicals, one of which is 40m2 of racks of powders. Some date back to the 1960s.

Now...it is certainly true that some chemicals are more stable than others (I need to keep some inside glass jars, in turn inside plastic beakers with water in them in case of explosive decomp) and some do expire....most of these dry powder chemicals can theoretically last for decades.

For something like B&W photo chemicals, I would think that any temperature range which isn't a threat to human health is OK. What you'll want to avoid is humidity and light getting into the chemicals themselves. Be careful with the packaging. with ID-11 it usually comes in plastic pouches which are sold in a cardboard box. Keep the pouches inside the box, don't rough them about and you've probably got good storage conditions provided you don't store them in a tin shed in tropical sun. Humidity becomes an issue if the packaging is compromised.

Of course it's also possible that there was a manufacturing or packaging error and some moisture, air or other gas was trapped inside the packaging. In the past, many photographers kept their chemicals inside cupboards in their dark rooms - which again is nigh on perfect storage conditions even in high temperatures.

chakra said:

What was the humidity level in your cabinet?

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I live in Texas, USA, which is a rather dry climate, so relative humid is generally low. In addition, my home is maintained at about 72ºF (22C) year round. Don't know the exact humid level, but it would never be particularly high.

Cheers...

Maybe freezing bursts the micro encapsulated components?