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Freezing open paper?

chip j

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Is it ok to freeze open boxes/packs of B&W paper?
 
I've frozen several boxes of open paper for a few months and they all seemed to be ok. I work overseas for months at a stretch so my darkroom is shut down for long periods of time. I don't know if it's ok to refreeze paper after it's been frozen and thawed once though. I hope so since I'm going away again soon.
 
It is ok to put into the freezer. But not ok to take it out.

Got my point?
 
No, I didn't get it. My knee is going to be messed up for a few yrs (going thru the VA, and they take their time), and I have a lot of paper to store until then.
 
The problem you have to avoid is condensation on the paper causing it to stick together. The condensation happens when the paper is warming up. When you put the paper in the freezer you need to wrap it very well so when it warms there is not much moisture inside to turn to condensation. Then let it warm completely to room temperature before opening. It is the same with open boxes of sheet film. If you take a box of sheet film out of the freezer and open it up and get a couple of frozen sheets out thinking to warm them in the holder and then leave the film box sitting out for a few minutes, condensation will occur and the film will stick together. With paper it is less a problem just due to the nature of the paper but it is still potentially a problem. It is definitely doable though if you let it warm completely to room temperature before opening.
 
No it is a simple physical problem of relative humidity and dew point.

If you reseal the film or paper and freeze any water in air will condense and turn to ice crystalls.

Lots of damage to emulsion at that point

Theres are other consequences...

Mono is good for a decade below 10C warm part of any fridge best place... silica gel and zip locks good to avoid condensation.

Oven the gel before packing google for cooking recipe.'

Ask Simon the Ilford person...

Hope knee is better soon.
 
Xmas said:
No it is a simple physical problem of relative humidity and dew point.

If you reseal the film or paper and freeze any water in air will condense and turn to ice crystalls.
Click to expand...

When lowering temperature slowly the gelatine an absorb some water. When lowering temperature abrupt water will rather codense at the coldest surfaces, that is the packaging.

From a theorethical point of view it is a good idea to have as little air volume in contact with photographic material as possible. Thus better use a tight inner bag in a half empty unsealed box, than open sheets in a half empty box that is sealed.
 
Yes, it's okay to freeze paper once it's been open. Seal it in bags with as much air removed as possible, then let it come back to room temp for several hours before opening. I do it all the time with no adverse effect.
 
chip j said:
No, I didn't get it. My knee is going to be messed up for a few yrs (going thru the VA, and they take their time), and I have a lot of paper to store until then.
Click to expand...

Chip,

Thank you for your service. Sorry you got messed up.
I am in Bath, between Akron and Cleveland. Can I help you with this or other things?

John Powers
 
NB23 said:
Post #7 says it's ok to take it out.
Click to expand...

The OP is about open paper. #7 explains that the critical phase is not the freezing, but the thawing. And that measures should be taken to enable to take out frozen paper.

(Inbetween freezing and thawing of open paper another problem would be opening the freezer and thus likely bringing humid air in contact with the paper that then is as cold as the freezer walls.)
 
You might look into the "Seal-A-Meal" device or similar.

It works wonderfully well for food; a "vacuum" pump sucks the air out of a heavy plastic bag, when the pressure is low enough the machine heat seals the open top of the bag. I think that it could handle a box of 8x10, but you might want to check via Google. With food we've found that there isn't any freezer burn, and we can speed thawing by a warm water bath.

Rick A's suggestion should also work. The main worry, as others have stated, is condensation when thawing.
 
GRHazelton said:
The main worry, as others have stated, is condensation when thawing.
Click to expand...

Which I haven't experienced yet, despite routinely thawing and refreezing some of my papers several times each. I think a bigger concern would be a power outage, and paper getting drenched by the big defrost. I know several people that have experienced that horror.
 

I have a similar device called Food Saver - The bags are indeed big enough to take a box of 10x8 100 sheets, but that is the limit. i wouldn't suck all the air out as it compresses the box and could mark the paper.
 
Rick and Paul have the right idea. Bag it, freeze it.
I'd let it warm up overnight to make sure.

The storage bags Rick mentions should be available big enough to easily fit anything up to 20X24 .
 
Thanks, guys, for all your tips. Chip John Powers, do you have a freezer that will hold about 6,000 shts of sealed but expired 11x14? (Just a Hail Mary).
 
Chip,

I do but I am afraid it is full up with 16x20 discontinued Kentmere Fineprint fbvc paper, 7x17 film and blueberries. We each have our addiction. Sorry I don't have an extra freezer.

When Ilford discontinued Kentmere I bought six boxes of 16x20 for future use after asking Simon of Ilford how long it would keep. This was new production last fall. He said 3-4 years cool room temperature and 5-6 years frozen. He said when you do use it let it thaw at least 2.5 days at room temperature. I don't know if thaw time or lasting time changes much by brand. I remember you said your paper was already expired.

In one post you said open, in the other you said sealed. If it is sealed have you considered selling it on eBay, here, the LF Forum or Craigs list? Then when your knee is better buy some more paper. That way somebody else stores it.

If I can help in some other way please PM me. If you are mobile with the knee problem and would like to be with a bunch of photo junkies next weekend PM me. My wife and I are having the NE OH Gathering. The thread starts here.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists). Read through and see if it interests you.

John
 
Yes, I have both open & sealed, but the open is not expired. I got the sealed PAL a long time ago for $3/100 shts, & can't replace it @ tha t price. I plan to try to salvage it for proof prints some day. I know about your gatheriings, But I'm on so many meds an all-day affair is too much.Thanks very much any way, John. I'm in Youngstown, BTW.
 
Freezing paper

Rick A said:
Yes, it's okay to freeze paper once it's been open. Seal it in bags with as much air removed as possible, then let it come back to room temp for several hours before opening. I do it all the time with no adverse effect.
Click to expand...

Ditto. I triple wrap it using plastic wrapping film, and after it has been removed from the freezer, lean it so air can circulate around it for 24-48 hours before I remove the wrap.
 
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