freezing developer?

Craig Swensson · Oct 27, 2009

Not sure if this is a dumb question or not - let me know

Can developer [paper], once made up be frozen? any effect?

say i make up 450mls to do three prints and don`t plan to do anymore for a week or two - could i freeze it? regards

Denis R · Oct 27, 2009

how will you agitate a block of ice?? :rolleyes:

Craig Swensson · Oct 27, 2009

well of course i would remove from freezer a couple of days prior to use, just a thought, nothing too serious

Anon Ymous · Oct 27, 2009

No, I don't think freezing it would be a good choice. Not only is it impractical (thawing), but you might get precipitate that might be rather hard to dissolve. I got good results by storing paper developer in fizzy drink bottles. They have very good caps (air tight if you close them tightly) and some lighter gas in the bottle will reduce oxidation drastically. Keep in mind though that paper developer oxidises rapidly and gives somewhat lower contrast as it ages (the solution).

Craig Swensson · Oct 27, 2009

cheers, yep thats how i store it also, understood thanx, was really just a random thought i did not have an answer to, regards

john_s · Oct 27, 2009

Even refrigerator temp is enough to crystallize some dev components. They can be very difficult to re-dissolve.

Murray Kelly · Oct 27, 2009

john_s said:
Even refrigerator temp is enough to crystallize some dev components. They can be very difficult to re-dissolve.

G'day, John.
I keep nearly all my chems and devs. in the garage fridge and never had that problem. I have seen postings where the stock was frozen into suitable sized lumps and thawed as and when necessary before dilution. This is for film, mind, but the principle would still hold. Never tried that myself but in theory, the water is out of the equation and the active agents shouldn't oxidise.
How about Pakeha tries it and reports back? Give it a month and see if it still works.
Murray

brianmquinn · Oct 27, 2009

Most developers if made with distilled water and stored in glass bottles with metal caps or teflon lined plastic caps will last for years at room temp. When you need it just open the bottle. No need to wait a day of more for it to thaw and re dissolve. I reuse Perrier water bottles for my developer. My Xtol long term test has gone over 3 years now will no noticable loss of activity.

Anon Ymous · Oct 27, 2009

brianmquinn said:
...My Xtol long term test has gone over 3 years now will no noticable loss of activity.

Do you actually mean that you have 3yo (unreplenished) Xtol that you used recently and your negatives came out fine?

Bosaiya · Oct 27, 2009

I used to do all my work in an unheated, uninsulated outbuilding. Going out in the morning during winter to start up a heater (which did almost nothing) and break up the chunks of ice on everything was part of the fun. Plenty of times I was working in below-freezing temps where the heater would blow warmish air directly on me but ice would form in the trays of liquid a foot away. Never seemed to do much harm. Not to the chemicals, at least.

Dave Krueger · Oct 27, 2009

I recently uncapped and started using Dektol that was mixed into working strength solution (1:2) back in 2007 and stored in plastic bottles with lids so leaky that, when you squeeze the bottle, liquid leaks out the top. I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes exhausted more quickly than fresh developer, but the image pops out quickly and I get good blacks. I'm glad I didn't throw it out.

I'm not trying to make a case that everyone should immediately throw out the rules for good darkroom chemical management and become a complete moron like me. I only mention it because I'm quite surprised at how long unused working strength Dektol can last if left undisturbed (without refrigeration).

Having said that, I have recently started storing Xtol in the fridge (maybe because of something I read on APUG).

clayne · Oct 28, 2009

I regularly reuse Dektol from printing sessions. It's not uncommon to find myself reusing the same working batch for 3-4 times in a week. I just pour it back into a temporary container until I need to use it again. It's not until that it's obvious it's done (i.e. takes forever, crappy blacks, etc.) that I dump it. I honestly haven't noticed any significant issues with contrast. I might also be grading upwards somewhat to account for it, but if the end result is the same, who cares?

Craig Swensson · Oct 28, 2009

quote
How about Pakeha tries it and reports back? Give it a month and see if it still works.
Murray

Yep sure, next new batch i`ll do a double and freeze one lot down, only way to find out as it seems its ok in some parts of the world but not others:confused:
i`ll do a test and see what happens just for interest.
It will be Ilford multi as i got a few litres at a price

Anon Ymous · Oct 28, 2009

clayne said:
...I honestly haven't noticed any significant issues with contrast. I might also be grading upwards somewhat to account for it, but if the end result is the same, who cares?

I noticed it with Ilford's Multigrade developer. I did a test with fresh and old developer, side by side, same negative, same filter, exposure. Both gave good blacks, the old one gave slightly less contrast and IIRC, slightly warmer image.

Dave Krueger · Oct 28, 2009

clayne said:
I regularly reuse Dektol from printing sessions. It's not uncommon to find myself reusing the same working batch for 3-4 times in a week. I just pour it back into a temporary container until I need to use it again.

I reuse it, too. I actually mark the number of prints I make with hash marks on the label just for reference. I throw it away when the number seems large, although the developer is almost always still working fine when I pitch it. Once I start using a batch, it will start to discolor over time, so eventually I throw it out just for the color. There's no doubt I have used the same working solution for months when my darkroom sessions become more spaced out (usually because I'm busy with one of my other hobbies).

Also, I recently started using new air tight containers, so there's no telling how long the unused working solution will last.

naugastyle · Oct 28, 2009

Dave, what number "seems large" to you? Just curious. I can currently only get to the darkroom once a week and end up with 25-30 keepers, but of course there are plenty of non-keepers printed in each session as well. I hadn't considered re-using before because of the space between my sessions.

clayne · Oct 28, 2009

naugastyle said:
Dave, what number "seems large" to you? Just curious. I can currently only get to the darkroom once a week and end up with 25-30 keepers, but of course there are plenty of non-keepers printed in each session as well. I hadn't considered re-using before because of the space between my sessions.

25-30 keepers per session? Boy you're cleaning up!

RalphLambrecht · Oct 28, 2009

Murray Kelly said:
G'day, John.
I keep nearly all my chems and devs. in the garage fridge and never had that problem. I have seen postings where the stock was frozen into suitable sized lumps and thawed as and when necessary before dilution. This is for film, mind, but the principle would still hold. Never tried that myself but in theory, the water is out of the equation and the active agents shouldn't oxidise.
How about Pakeha tries it and reports back? Give it a month and see if it still works.
Murray

If you did that to your fixer, you either had a problem and did not know it or your fridge is not working. If photographic chemicals get too cold, ingredients fall out of solution and cannot be dissolved again.

Avoid temperatures below 50°F!

RalphLambrecht · Oct 28, 2009

Anon Ymous said:
I noticed it with Ilford's Multigrade developer. I did a test with fresh and old developer, side by side, same negative, same filter, exposure. Both gave good blacks, the old one gave slightly less contrast and IIRC, slightly warmer image.

Aging paper developer lose overall contrast due to Dmax limitations but highlight and midtone contrast is not affected until the developer is quite exhausted.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 28, 2009

Bosaiya said:
I used to do all my work in an unheated, uninsulated outbuilding. Going out in the morning during winter to start up a heater (which did almost nothing) and break up the chunks of ice on everything was part of the fun. Plenty of times I was working in below-freezing temps where the heater would blow warmish air directly on me but ice would form in the trays of liquid a foot away. Never seemed to do much harm. Not to the chemicals, at least.

OK... what are you smoking? I want some of it!

naugastyle · Oct 28, 2009

clayne said:
25-30 keepers per session? Boy you're cleaning up!

My definition of "keepers" might be different than yours Chris, especially as I'm using a lot for tests/comparisons . Besides, since I pay for my darkroom and can only get there once a week, each session is loooong.

Murray Kelly · Oct 29, 2009

Anon Ymous said:
Do you actually mean that you have 3yo (unreplenished) Xtol that you used recently and your negatives came out fine?

I have some FX-1 stock 'A' done up in glass sealed ampoules in 1960 that work fine with fresh stock 'B'.
That's 50 years next year. I made them up when I read and used the Crawley series on his FX developers.
Murray

Murray Kelly · Oct 29, 2009

RalphLambrecht said:
If you did that to your fixer, you either had a problem and did not know it or your fridge is not working. If photographic chemicals get too cold, ingredients fall out of solution and cannot be dissolved again. Avoid temperatures below 50°F!

Really? Never had a problem. That's 10°C. My beer is certainly colder than that. Fixer lives in the dark cupboard. I stir stock before drawing up and it all goes back into solution like it was in the first place, when I dilute with room temp water.
Which particular chemicals wouldn't redissolve? My brews are pretty basic.
Murray

Dave Krueger · Oct 29, 2009

naugastyle said:
Dave, what number "seems large" to you? Just curious. I can currently only get to the darkroom once a week and end up with 25-30 keepers, but of course there are plenty of non-keepers printed in each session as well. I hadn't considered re-using before because of the space between my sessions.

I wish I could answer that. It's at least several tens, but I can't remember if I ever let it get above a hundred per gallon. I just took about a year off from my photography and have forgotten numbers like that. I regularly get over a hundred 8x10s from a gallon of rapid fixer (which I use in a 2-bath system moving bath B up to A and discarding A). I have a chart on my wall that specifies how many 8x10s you can process in the fixer, developer, HCA, etc. Those numbers come from Kodak and I don't exceed them, but I think they are based on the assumption that you are using fresh working strength developer for each session.

Since I only make 8x10s or 16x20s, it's easy for me to tally prints. A good working session for me is ten 8x10s, but I usually only do 2 or 3. It's rare that I will do more than 1 or 2 16x20s in a day. Obviously, throwing chemicals away ofter one session would be very wasteful for me.

I do pay attention to how quickly the picture pops out in the developer and I'm fanatical about getting good blacks, so I'm like most people in that regard.

naugastyle · Oct 29, 2009

Oh yes, I should mention I'm only making 5x7s for the most part, so using even less developer than you are. Maybe I'll buy a soda this weekend before heading to the darkroom just to have somewhere to save the used developer .

freezing developer?

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