Freezing color paper.

Stew · Dec 3, 2005

Hi,

How many years can I freeze color RA-4 paper ,( fuji crystal archive or kodak endura), and still expect to get good results with no color shifts when printing with it?

Thanks,
Rob.

jd callow · Dec 3, 2005

Colour shifts are not the issues I've encountered with paper past its prime. Both Kodak and fuji can develop a warm, dirty white and I have had fuji go pink overall, but mostly in the base. I have successfully used paper that has been sotred for more than a year at room temp (or cooler), but can't answer about frozen. Most paper I have doesnt sit for more than a few months (stored in a cool basement).

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2005

Stew said:
Hi,

How many years can I freeze color RA-4 paper ,( fuji crystal archive or kodak endura), and still expect to get good results with no color shifts when printing with it?

Thanks,
Rob.

I have kept Endura on the shelf in my darkroom which is 68F all winter but pretty hot in the summer. It showed no change over that year.

I routinely keep it either frozen or refrigerated though, but the shelf life of the new Endura is remarkably good.

PE

kjsphoto · Dec 3, 2005

WhenI use to work in a lab years ago we sued to store paper and film in a huge freezer and I have seen paper a few years old print jsut fine with no problems at all. But the paper was put into a freezer from day 1.

Ed Sukach · Dec 3, 2005

Freezing works well. I have Agfa Color paper, opened and later frozen ~ ten years ago. Still perfectly OK.

BTW - Hats off to Ole for his "Butane" tip. A Tetenal RA-4 5 liter kit opened in March of this year and religiously protected from oxidation by a 3 - 5 second injection of butane from my Bernz-o-Matic Soldering Torch was just used up three days ago. Still *fine* after all that time stored (partially filled bottles) in my darkroom at 70 - 75 degrees F.

No, NO - I DON'T light the thing before use ... Shee...!

srs5694 · Dec 3, 2005

I'm interested in the comments about storing RA-4 paper at room temperature. I've just started with RA-4 printing, and the box I've got (Fuji type P III), as well as everything I've read in books, says the paper must be refrigerated. Is this "must" overblown, or are there paper-to-paper differences and I just happened to get one that requires refrigeration? It'd be a bit more convenient if I didn't have to refrigerate the stuff I expect to use within a few months, but I'll refrigerate it if it'll provide consistency benefits.

Photo Engineer · Dec 3, 2005

srs5694 said:
I'm interested in the comments about storing RA-4 paper at room temperature. I've just started with RA-4 printing, and the box I've got (Fuji type P III), as well as everything I've read in books, says the paper must be refrigerated. Is this "must" overblown, or are there paper-to-paper differences and I just happened to get one that requires refrigeration? It'd be a bit more convenient if I didn't have to refrigerate the stuff I expect to use within a few months, but I'll refrigerate it if it'll provide consistency benefits.

I know nothing about room temperature storage of Fuji papers.

I know that each generation of Kodak color paper has had the goal of improving raw stock keeping and I had the chance to test it by leaving several boxes on the shelf for a year. They survived with no change.

AAMOF, the Supra II and Supra III survived, but with a red speed loss. Within a year, the prints required about 20 red more filtration to fix the problem. There was no other significant problem.

Ektacolor Plus, 30, and 37 all had the same red speed loss, but even more so.

PE

Imke · Dec 3, 2005

srs5694 said:
I'm interested in the comments about storing RA-4 paper at room temperature. I've just started with RA-4 printing, and the box I've got (Fuji type P III), as well as everything I've read in books, says the paper must be refrigerated. Is this "must" overblown, or are there paper-to-paper differences and I just happened to get one that requires refrigeration? It'd be a bit more convenient if I didn't have to refrigerate the stuff I expect to use within a few months, but I'll refrigerate it if it'll provide consistency benefits.

I got the above mentioned warm, dirty whites after storing Fuji Crystal Archive paper at room temperature for a few months. I'd refrigerate it.

ekjt · Dec 28, 2005

Imke said:
I got the above mentioned warm, dirty whites after storing Fuji Crystal Archive paper at room temperature for a few months. I'd refrigerate it.

I just came from the darkroom where I found that all my supra ja ultra endura boxes may have gone bad. They developed very dirty warm white. When I put an unexposed paper straight into the bilx, I got nice clean whites. But processing it through developer makes the whites go brown/gray. Is this typical for outdated paper?
As this was true for 3 different boxes, I tried mixing fresh chemistry from different brand, omitted the stop bath, chased for light leaks in the darkroom and everything else I could imagine. The papers are around 1.5 years old and have been always refridgerated except the past two months when they have been in cool ambient temperature.
How long do your papers typically last?

regards

Esa

Photo Engineer · Dec 28, 2005

Esa, I have stored Endura at room temperature for up to 1 year, as well as Supra I, II and III for that long and longer. The Endura showed no change, but the Supra papers showed a shift to the red and they lost some speed. I saw no significant increase in dmin in any of them.

PE

ekjt · Dec 28, 2005

Photo Engineer said:
Esa, I have stored Endura at room temperature for up to 1 year, as well as Supra I, II and III for that long and longer. The Endura showed no change, but the Supra papers showed a shift to the red and they lost some speed. I saw no significant increase in dmin in any of them.

Any other ideas about how to fix my whites?
In a correctly working ra-4, should there be any difference in the colour of a normally processed unexposed paper and a paper just bleachfixed?
Today I used tetenal and Paterson chemicals. Both have worked well previously.

Photo Engineer · Dec 28, 2005

ekjt said:
Any other ideas about how to fix my whites?
In a correctly working ra-4, should there be any difference in the colour of a normally processed unexposed paper and a paper just bleachfixed?
Today I used tetenal and Paterson chemicals. Both have worked well previously.

Esa, there is a change in Dmin when you fully process an unexposed sheet of paper vs just blixing and washing. This is usually a shift yellowish with an increase of about 0.05 units in density or greater. In no case should the dmin be over 0.2 in color paper. It should be well below this value.

PE

ekjt · Dec 28, 2005

Thank you. This time the shift is so huge that it is a real problem. I have to try with a fresh box of paper soon.

ekjt · Dec 29, 2005

The problem was aged paper. A fresh box pf paper solved the problem. Now the difference between fully processed and only bilxed paper is barely visible.

So, as an answer to the original question. Supra and Ultra Endura refridgerated for a year and kept a couple of months in room temp may go bad.

Esa

jd callow · Dec 29, 2005

Fuji, does appear to have a shorter shelf life. I have some fuji flex stored in a cool basement that went bad after about 6 months. Oddly, the most significant aspect of it going south was that it could not achieve a good black. (this is unusual, most papers go south in the base or Dmin not the Dmax. My cleanout which is Fuji CA has printed pink in the Dmin for over a year, yet produces a real nice black when run through the processor.) I dumped and remixed all my chems to make sure it was the paper -- which was a waste.

Meanwhile, I have enduraflex which is every bit as old as the fuji stored similarly and is perfect.

I have a chest freezer which I have been too cheap to hook-up, but may have to this spring if I continue to use Fuji products.

FWIW I have no greater love for CA over any other paper. Except when printing specific films, I don't see any significant advantage of CA over Kodak. I use it because most people (those who might buy my work) have bought the hype and because it is cheaper. When I read or hear people write that CA is in a class of its own or that it is head and shoulders better than all others I think: Emperor + no clothes.

Photo Engineer · Dec 29, 2005

A bit off-topic, but FYI; in general, due to the design, Fuji papers print best with Fuji films, but Kodak papers will print well with either Kodak or Fuji films.

This has been reported elsewhere.

It is due to the use of what is called the "silver criterion" in the selection of the spectral sensitivities of the Kodak papers.

PE

Freezing color paper.

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Freezing color paper.

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