Freezer for Film Storage - Chest or Upright, Manual or Auto Defrost?

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 14, 2006

Well, with the special order TMAX 400 starting to ship, I need to finally get out and buy a new freezer this weekend for film storage. Does anyone have any specific recommendations concerning chest vs. upright and manual vs. auto defrost? I'm not looking to store stuff for decades (at least not yet). Just something to hold a couple year's supply.

I think I'd prefer an auto defrost upright for convenience, but as this freezer will be dedicated to film storage and won't be opened and the contents accessed every day like or regular freezer, I have no strong objection to a chest freezer. A manual defrost chest freezer looks like the most cost effective purchase. What about energy costs. I'm assuming a manual defrost model will use less electricity, but what do you do with all your film while you manually defrost it? Take it out for a day and then refreeze it, I assume.

Thanks,
Kerry

colrehogan · Apr 14, 2006

If you get a manual defrost freezer, I hope you stock up on plastic bags or something to protect your film boxes from the ice that forms inside the freezer.

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 14, 2006

Diane,

When storing film in our regular kitchen freezer (frost free upright), I always seal it up in zip loc bags before placing it in the freezer. That helps protect against both condensation when removing it from the freezer and any spills or other accidents.

I assume ice build-up will be less rapid in a manual defrost freezer that is only opened a couple times a month than in one that is opened daily (or several times a day ).

Kerry

glbeas · Apr 14, 2006

I've been told, can't really prove it though, that the auto defrost is not the best for film as it actually heats the walls of the freezer for a short time to melt the ice away. Had a fridge go bad on me once because the timer for the auto defrost went bad and it would get stuck on the defrost and melt everything.

That said I think the auto defrost has got to be better than having to deal with the ice buildup as the mass of the frozen film should be enough to keep it frozen during the thaw cycle.

blaze-on · Apr 14, 2006

As a former Electric Utility marketing person, I suggest talking to your local utilities Energy Specialist on this...they should offer free and up to date info & advice, and many offer rebates for Energy Star® rated units.

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 14, 2006

I guess what I'm really comparing is manual defrost vs. frost free models. Most, but not all, chest freezers are manual defrost. Uprights are readily available in both types. I did some quick energy guide checks and frost free models of similar capacity typically use 60 - 70% more energy than manual defrost models - no doubt due to the periodic cycling and running of the fan to prevent ice build up. Were talking about ~$25 - $30 per year vs. ~$40 - $50 year in the sizes I'm looking at.

Anyone have any thoughts on my assumption that ice build up will be much slower in a freezer that's only opened a couple times a month than one that's opened every day. If I only have to manually defrost it onece a year, I can probably live with that.

Kerry

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 14, 2006

blaze-on said:
As a former Electric Utility marketing person, I suggest talking to your local utilities Energy Specialist on this...they should offer free and up to date info & advice, and many offer rebates for Energy Star® rated units.

Rebates! Cool! I'll check into it as most of the manual defrost units I'm looking at are Energy Star® rated.

Kerry

photomc · Apr 14, 2006

kthalmann said:
Anyone have any thoughts on my assumption that ice build up will be much slower in a freezer that's only opened a couple times a month than one that's opened every day. If I only have to manually defrost it onece a year, I can probably live with that.

Kerry

Hi Kerry, while don't get to use the chest freezer for film (it's the wife's territory) I can tell you we have had a medium size chest freezer for 4 years now and have not had to defrost it yet. There is ice build up, but that actually is a good thing, because it helps to keep things frozen. The build up is not bad and is mostly around the open area, but not so much that it keeps the lid from closing. I would recommend getting one that you can lock, as it will help keep the lid tight when locked (also a nice safety percaution). I am still trying to decide if I want 2nd freezer or just a fridge (with freezer) for the film/paper. Leaning towards the later, since I do not keep a lot of either but it will be in the garage (in Texas) so it will get some heat in the middle of summer - good thing is the garage is on the east side of the house.

Let us hear what the electric company says....when we built the house we went with lots of energy saving advice and I get to say the largest electric bill I have had (all electric - 2200 sq/ft) is under $160. Not bad when I hear folks around here talk about 2x - 3x more - average.

25asa · Apr 14, 2006

Why Freeze? What's wrong with 37F (~3C) ?
Film isn't like hamburger.
I park mine there and have no problem other than putting a spacer on the bottom
and wiping the condenstation off the bottom every 8 or so openings of the door during the humid summer.

Donald Miller · Apr 14, 2006

I use a manual defrost chest for both film and for paper. In over a year I have yet to defrost it yet. In fact at this rate, I imagine that I am looking at two to three years.

Granted I live in a pretty low relative humidity area but I am into it about four to five times a week. When I lived in a higher relative humidity area, I never found it necessary to defrost in over two years of use.

Uprights are probably easier to access the film or paper.

Ted Harris · Apr 14, 2006

I'd go with an upright over a chest simply because it is som much esier to see wht is in there and not risk film getting lost for years.

Nick Zentena · Apr 14, 2006

Chest won't waste cold when you open it.

Upright is easier to get into/out of when you need something out of the bottom.

Dan Williams · Apr 14, 2006

A couple of years ago I bought a small upright freezer - I mean small - about the size of a dishwasher. I figured I would fill it with film and paper. I has had probably stored more chicken and seafood than film. At the moment I probably have 40 rolls of 35 mm, some 120, and a couple of boxes of 5x7 in there. I have used it for paper but not all that often.

My wife has gadget called a Food Saver - sucks the air out of heavy plastic bags and seals them -protects them from "freezer burn"- if you see one on sale, Buy it. Good for food and film. by the way, I take the roll film out of the boxes and freeze them and I package 5 rolls to a bag.

Anyway, the freezer was inexpensive, I bought it at Sears on a "Dent and Scratch" sale and it has proven to be a good deal. It is manual defrost and in 3 years (I think) I have defrosted it twice. I took everything out and put it in plastic camping coolers while I defrosted the freezer with my darkroom hair dryer (Ground Fault Circuit Interupter protected). The whole process took about a half hour.

I think a feezer is a good idea. Unless you are storing very large quantities, a small semi-dedicated freezer seems to work fine. Manual defrosting has not been a problem for me.

langedp · Apr 14, 2006

Kerry,

I worked for a major appliance manufacturer as an engineer for many years. It's mostly personal preference. Chest freezers are usually maunual defrost. Upright's can be either. It mostly depends on how many times it gets opened when it's humid. That's why most refrigerators are auto defrost. They get opened many times per day. Auto defrost units use heaters in the walls to defrost and generally run the defrost cycle on a timer. I use a chest freezer in the basement for film and paper storage. I rarely need to defrost it. For my use, it's cheaper to buy and cheaper to run than an upright.

Michael Kadillak · Apr 15, 2006

If you were to look through a thermal camera when you open up an upright freezer the cold falls out of it like water down a waterfall. Chest freezers on the other hand hold the heavier cold air in place all the time. Manual defrost is standard for this style and obviously cheaper and will work perfectly fine. The challenge is to label your dates and keep an inventory listing so you constantly know what you have. I just stack the boxes vertically by format so I can see what I have and get at it quickly.

The biggest risk I find with a chest freezer is if a power outage causes my ground fault interrupter in the garage (newer house compliant with building code) to trip and I am not there to re-set it. As a result, I find a power "On" light on the front panel a strong recommendation as one can quickly ascertain if there is a problem and re-establish your power supply if there is a problem. Last summer the lightning strikes we experienced caused an above normal problem with our power supply. Ain't it great to have the opportunity to consider a chest freezer to store all of that NEW ULF FILM!

Cheers!

Cheers!

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 15, 2006

Thanks for all the great responses. I've pretty much decided to go with a manual defrost chest model. They seem to represent the best value in terms of both purchase price and operating costs. Sears currently has several freezers on sale, including a mail-in rebate/refund that makes the delivery free - if you make your purchase by the end of the day tomorrow (4/15/06). I'll make a trip to the mall tomorrow to check them out, but unless there is something I don't like about it, I'm leaning towards a 12.8 cu. ft. Kenmore model that's on sale for $299.88 (qualifies for the delivery rebate with 88 cents to spare). They also have a larger model (14.8 cu. ft.) on sale for $329.88. It's a slightly better deal in terms of $/cu. ft., but it's a little too wide to fit in the space I've allocated in our garage. Both of these models have nice features like a lock, interior light, power-on indicator light, etc.

How it all fits in our garage is another reason I decided to go with a chest model over an upright. While an upright takes up less floor space, with the door that swings out, it would be hard to access the contents with our vehicles in the garage. Not a problem with the chest model and the lid that opens up. And, even allowing clearance for the lid to open, I can still have a couple shelves mounted on the wall above the freezer. With an upright, I'd always have to be careful not to "door bang" the vehicles when opening it.

For those that prefer an upright, Sears also has a couple of manual defrost Kenmore upright models on sale: 11.6 cu. ft. for $299.88 and 14.1 for $329.88.

Originally, I planned on getting a smaller ~7 cu. ft. model just for my film, but we went to Costco tonight to look at what they had, and decided a bigger model that could hold both film and some frozen food items would be the best value in the long run. This way we'll be able to take advantage of buying frozen food items in the institutional sizes that Costco sells at bargain prices. It will also allow us extra space to freeze some of the local produce we buy at the Saturday market and some Dungeness crab and other fresh seafood from the Oregon Coast.

Thanks again for all the help.

Kerry

Monophoto · Apr 15, 2006

kthalmann said:
and some Dungeness crab and other fresh seafood from the Oregon Coast.

Great plan!

Ronald Moravec · Apr 15, 2006

Chest with manual defrost is the cheapest and most energy efficient. But a pain to use as everything gets pilled on top of everything else and you have to unload top layers to get at the bottom. I bought some lift out baskets for mine.

Self defrost is better as things do not dry out. Opening the freezer in humid conditions allows frost to form inside. If you limit in and out, the problem is minimal.

I would get an upright manual defrost WITH A LOCK ON THE DOOR to avoid accidents. My key is taped to the freezer on a string.

Food/film damage can avoided with auto defrost is you place it in freezer boxes that are sealed. You will never get freezer burn or wreck film if it is sealed up. The Container Store sells such items. A full freezer limits how much warm air enters when you open it so fill it with empty boxes if you have to.

Buy the smallest size you require.

If you will use it for food with a lot of in and out, get a auto defrost.

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 15, 2006

I just got back from Sears at the local mall. I ordered the Kenmore 12.8 cu. ft. manual defrost chest model that was on sale for $299.88 (including free delivery after mail-in rebate). The 14.8 cu. ft model was only $30 more, but it was a little big for the space in our garage where the freezer will go, and probably bigger than we really need. Luckily, when our house was built, they wired the garage for a freezer. It will be delivered and "installed" (aka: plugged in) on Friday.

While it will be used for both film and food storage, it won't be opened on a daily basis - probably a couple times a week. We have a large side-by-side in the kitchen that will hold our normal frozen foods (and will have more room for food storage with all my film moved to the new freezer in the garage). The new freezer will hold film and will be used for longer term food storage. The model I selected has three baskets (two removable sliding top-level baskets and one mid-level sliding basket. I like Michael's advice and plan to stack my film vertically so I can read the labels on the box ends and pull out what I need without digging through a bunch of stuff stacked on top of the film.

Thanks for all the response and helpful advice.

Kerry

ReallyBigCameras · Apr 21, 2006

The new freezer was delivered today. It was installed (slid into place and plugged in) in a matter of seconds and is now up and running and awaiting the delivery of my 7x17 film.

Thanks to all who responded. If anyone is interested, I checked the Sears web site last night and they still have several freezers on sale (including the one I bought) and have extended the free delivery rebate through tomorrow.

Kerry

blaze-on · Apr 21, 2006

Kerry, just a reminder to make sure to keep that new freezer full , even if it's water bottles filled with tap water. They use more energy when not full, and a freezer is the second highest energy user in the household next to an A/C unit. When they are in a garage in summer time, even more of a power drain.

craigclu · Apr 22, 2006

I've got a 12 ft³ manual chest in my laundry room. It hasn't been defrosted in 6-7 years and has no sign of needing it. I've got various films in large, sealed coffee cans as a sorting method and it's been a good method for many years. It pays to review your stock from time to time as you accumulate more than you realize! A nice surprise was finding a couple of cans of TechPan that had been forgotten when interests sent me in other directions. It stirred up an amazing amount of interest on eBay when I decided not to pursue the orphaned emulsion and I could have bought a couple of more freezers with the proceeds! If you would have bought the freezer five years back and loaded it right, you could have had a more comfortable retirement.....

fhovie · Apr 23, 2006

Chest freezers cost less to operate and manual is fine. That is what I use and am happy with it.

Gerald Koch · Apr 24, 2006

25asa said:
Why Freeze? What's wrong with 37F (~3C) ?
Film isn't like hamburger.
I park mine there and have no problem other than putting a spacer on the bottom
and wiping the condenstation off the bottom every 8 or so openings of the door during the humid summer.

I read that Agfa stored its film at -9 C because that was the best compomise between longevity and energy use.

ReallyBigCameras · May 13, 2006

Well, my 7x17 TMAX 400 arrived today, and I sure am glad I bought the 12.8 cu. ft. model and not the little 7 cu. ft. freezer we originally considered. The 7x17 TMAX 400 came in boxes made for 16x20 film (outside dimensions 16 3/4" x 20 7/8"). Also, there are only 10 sheets per box, the boxes look like they were originally made to hold a lot more sheets (25?). So, the boxes take up a lot more space in the freezer than I anticipated.

Still, I sure am glad to have the film, but equally glad my freezer is big enough to hold it in the factory supplied packaging.

Kerry

Freezer for Film Storage - Chest or Upright, Manual or Auto Defrost?

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