Freezer film storage

semi-ambivalent · Jan 11, 2012

Suppose you were going to build a small, lead-shielded film storage box in your freezer in the shed. Anybody know how thick the lead would have to be to stop your typical cosmic ray? A couple mm's enough?

s-a

ntenny · Jan 11, 2012

Nope. Cosmic rays are mostly high-energy protons, which can penetrate multiple centimeters of lead. (Various citations available through Google, largely scientific papers from the 1930s when there was a bit of a boom in cosmic-ray research, but most of them are pay-per-view for the details. The abstracts usually contain vague statements like "not much loss of energy".)

-NT

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2012

I have not needed to do anything but keep unopened film in the freezer. If the film has been opened, put it in a zip lock freezer bag at room temperture first.

Steve

BradS · Jan 11, 2012

The bottom drawer of the fridge has always been completley satisfactory for my needs. Ther is certainly no need to freeze film.

Brian C. Miller · Jan 11, 2012

The only way from keeping your film from being degraded by cosmic rays is to move it to a different dimension, where cosmic rays don't exist.

I have used frozen film 30 years old, and it had no age degradation. It was stored locally in the Seattle area, in a normal freezer. I really suspect cosmic rays have little to do with film degradation, and more to do with local background radiation. I'm guessing that film storage in Nevada is a serious problem.

What film are you trying to store?

jp498 · Jan 11, 2012

3' of earth is equivalent to quite a bit of lead or steel for shield from cosmic rays. google and wikipedia it.... However, storing material underground could also expose it to radon or mineral radiation and potential flooding.

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2012

A salt mine is ideal!

PE

semi-ambivalent · Jan 11, 2012

Brian C. Miller said:
The only way from keeping your film from being degraded by cosmic rays is to move it to a different dimension, where cosmic rays don't exist.

I have used frozen film 30 years old, and it had no age degradation. It was stored locally in the Seattle area, in a normal freezer. I really suspect cosmic rays have little to do with film degradation, and more to do with local background radiation. I'm guessing that film storage in Nevada is a serious problem.

What film are you trying to store?

OK everybody, I get the drift It's Tri-X, and it's going in the freezer because there's not enough room in the fridge. Point well taken, PE, but people didn't trust the WIP very much either, did they.

s-a

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2012

Since there are about 30 acronyms using WIP, which one of them did you mean to refer to? I take "Weapon Impact Point" Kinda nice or perhaps "Women in Photography", as it is more on-topic.

PE

MattKing · Jan 11, 2012

I wonder if a thick layer of Twinkies could stop cosmic rays.

It could kill two birds with one stone .

What do you think, PE?

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2012

MattKing said:
I wonder if a thick layer of Twinkies could stop cosmic rays.

It could kill two birds with one stone .

What do you think, PE?

Put a Twinkie in a bird feeder and it will kill more than two and some may get stoned!

I wonder if a thick layer of Twinkies could stop cosmic rays. Sure, Twinkies can stop a heart!

jbl · Jan 11, 2012

I second the salt mine idea. That's what I use .

Aristophanes · Jan 11, 2012

Brian C. Miller said:
The only way from keeping your film from being degraded by cosmic rays is to move it to a different dimension, where cosmic rays don't exist.

Which dimension did you have in mind?

Aristophanes · Jan 11, 2012

BradS said:
The bottom drawer of the fridge has always been completley satisfactory for my needs. Ther is certainly no need to freeze film.

A freezer is (should be) a constant environment controlling humidity and temperature, the bane of anything perishable, especially anything with organic compounds, even in trace amounts. Any need to freeze film depends on the alternative storage methods and time constraints.

semi-ambivalent · Jan 11, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Since there are about 30 acronyms using WIP, which one of them did you mean to refer to? I take "Weapon Impact Point" Kinda nice or perhaps "Women in Photography", as it is more on-topic.

PE

Waste Isolation (Plant/Project/?) New Mexico or Nevada. Store atomic waste in a salt mine. This was maybe 10 years ago, possibly more. I'm sure someone will correct me. (Oh, and I do remember "Wip Inflation Now!". Just wish I had kept my lapel pin.)

s-a

Newt_on_Swings · Jan 11, 2012

If your freezer is old enough it should shield you from a close range atomic blast... so says indiana jones lol

L Gebhardt · Jan 11, 2012

MattKing said:
I wonder if a thick layer of Twinkies could stop cosmic rays.

It could kill two birds with one stone .

What do you think, PE?

If that works you better hurry, Hostess is filing chapter 11. But if it does, at least you know the Twinkies will last forever

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2012

Kodak gave us lapel pins for every major thing along with coffee cups. I have them all. Maybe I should sell them!

PE

tkamiya · Jan 11, 2012

Typical frost free freezers use heater element to raise the temp enough to melt the little front that builds up. It happens few times a day. So.... that means the temp inside does go up and down on regular basis. I guess THAT doesn't hurt anything?

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2012

The humidity goes up and down as well, and my point was that we don't know!!!!

PE

Aristophanes · Jan 11, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
The humidity goes up and down as well, and my point was that we don't know!!!!

PE

The amount of temperature and humidity in a freezer is well-controlled within a very limited range; many factors less variance than the external environment. Freezer systems meet health and safety guidelines and regulations for food safety. Film is likely the least perishable, least organic item in most domestic freezers. Freezers simply reduce environmental volatility and are the most controlled environment in homes.

Again, the anecdotal evidence is very strong that freezers are a safe place to store film.

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2012

There is evidence that the fluctuations in temperature and humidity can cause spots on film or film that sticks to itself. This is due to humidity primarily along with temperature changes.

If you look at a sealed bag of some moist product that has been frozen, you will see water accumulate in the container. It is coming form the product and is causing freezer burn. This happens on a micro scale with moisture and organics in film! It can hurt film. See the word "CAN" in that sentence. It can hurt film. Not "WILL" or "MUST".

So, you buys your ticket and takes your chances.

Best of luck.

PE

Sal Santamaura · Jan 11, 2012

Recently posted

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=817242&postcount=8

I should append to the second link (which is in a thread specifically related to Kodak discontinuations) that Fuji 120 and sheet film, Kodak 120 film and Ilford 120 film also come from the factory in vapor-seal inner packaging that's safe for placement into freezers.

Anyone wanting more information about cold storage should read Wilhelm's opus:

Dead Link Removed

Chapters 16, 19 and 20 are most relevant if you'd like to minimize download size.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 11, 2012

There are more than 10 pages of extant threads on APUG dealing with freezer storage of film.

BradS · Jan 12, 2012

Aristophanes said:
Again, the anecdotal evidence is very strong that freezers are a safe place to store film.

Until you've had some film ruined in the freezer. That would be actual physical evidence contradicting your hypothesis.

One counter example disproves the hypothesis (period, end of story).

Freezer film storage

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