Freeze a decades worth of film? Really a good idea?

ic-racer · Mar 27, 2007

I am just speaking from personal observations on EXPOSED film that I "forgot" to process in the bottom of the freezer.

My almost universal finding is that the film looks fogged.

For the last 10 years I have frozen my exposed and non-exposed film, and prior to that I just used the refrigerator.

This came up again when I found non-marked plastic cannister in the freezer and discovered a roll of exposed 35mm tmax inside. I processed it last month and discovered it had probably been shot in 1999 or 1998. As far as I can tell it had spent its entire life in cold storage (it probably got thawed to move twice but never was left in a hot tunk).

Anyway, it is fogged. Not enought to be ruined but certainly gets me a little concerned about 'stocking up on decades worth of film just before they stop making it anymore.'

Anyone have some good experience to report on frozen 8 to 10 year old film that still has a nice clear film base?

David Grenet · Mar 27, 2007

My understanding is that the latent image keeping properties of film (i.e. exposing, freezing, developing) are much worse than the stocking up and freezing keeping properties (i.e. freezing, exposing, developing) of film.

There are people here who know much more about this than me though.

removed account4 · Mar 27, 2007

i have been shooting expired unfrozen/room temp tri x that expired 10 years ago. its all sheet film, and it has been on a studio shelf. i haven't had any trouble with fogging, maybe i am lucky?

Konical · Mar 27, 2007

Good Evening,

I've had no problem with using long-expired but frozen B & W film. I have occasionally used out-dated but frozen color film also; my uses are definitely non-critical, and perhaps I'm not as picky as I should be, but, again, I've never had a complaint about the results. Naturally, I wouldn't stretch nearly as far back with color film as with B & W.

On a major copy job a couple of years ago, I used mostly 1988-dated copy film which had not even been refrigerated. The negatives from the old film were virtually indistinguishable from a few for which recent film of the same type was used. Freeze without fear!

Konical

copake_ham · Mar 27, 2007

As to your query.

Storing UNEXPOSED film in a freezer is a very good idea (under the presumption that it remains in its original packaging).

Once EXPOSED, I would never freeze (or re-freeze) the film. It has been exposed not just to light, but to humidity at ambient temperatures etc.

It should be processed ASAP. But if it has to be stored, then it should be in a cool and dry dark place (e.g. in a dry drawer).

Simple rule is, so long as it is still sealed - freezing is fine and recommended. Once you "break the seal" I, at least, would never then freeze the film - it will simply then condense whatever moisture the unsealed film has "picked up".

patrickjames · Mar 28, 2007

I am not an expert on this but I think that after the film has been exposed to light the latent image is much more sensitive to gamma rays, thus your fogged negs. If someone who knows better would clarify this it would be an interesting read.

Patrick

ic-racer · Mar 28, 2007

patrickjames said:
I am not an expert on this but I think that after the film has been exposed to light the latent image is much more sensitive to gamma rays, thus your fogged negs. If someone who knows better would clarify this it would be an interesting read.

Patrick

The 'fog' includes the area where the film sprocket holes are. It is uniform, over the whole film, not just the exposed area.

I have never had any problem with a 'fading image' from my own long forgotten exposed film. Just overall extra film base density. My personal experience would hold that the latent image is stable for many-many years. (I did once purchased an old folding camera with possibly exposed film in it, which upon processing, did not show any images)

In terms of freezing BEFORE or AFTER opening the film; I bulk load all my 35mm and put it in those plastic cannisters with a lid and then put it in the freezer. Wether it spends an additional 5 minutes or 5 days in a camera does not seem like it would make any difference to me. I do make shure the plastic cannisters are close to room temp. before I open them. (to avoid condensation). This applies to both the exposed and unexposed rolls.

I also have on occasion noticed some mottling of the grain on stored 120 film (in addition to some light fog) making me think the mottling is related to the films age or storage. I currently do try to always put the exposed 120 rolls in a zip lock bag while in storage.

I have not ever YET had the need to hoard film, as the film I normally used is stocked by my local pro store. But I may need to do it in the future. Good to hear that others have had good experience with preserved film.

ic-racer · Mar 28, 2007

Alessandro Serrao said:
Vacuum-packaging the exposed film before put it again in the freezer could be a good idea. As for the fog it's the cosmic radiation, no one can do anything about it.

Excellent!!! I had not thought about that as I got a vacuum packaging system for food as a gift that we have never used. If I can find that thing it is headed straight to the darkroom.

resummerfield · Mar 28, 2007

I had some Tmax 400 that I purchased new in 1997 and immediately froze. Recently, 1n 2007, I thawed the film, exposed it normally, and immediately processed it. The base fog was about 0.36 to 0.40, higher than normal, but still printable.

PHOTOTONE · Mar 28, 2007

I think the "key" here is for film to have a long life (pre exposure), it needs to be in its sealed foil pouch. I have used 25 year old expired medium-speed b/w film that was sealed in its pouch, but not refrigerated, just stored in cool conditions, and had no visible fog.

Roger Hicks · Mar 28, 2007

PHOTOTONE said:
I think the "key" here is for film to have a long life (pre exposure), it needs to be in its sealed foil pouch. I have used 25 year old expired medium-speed b/w film that was sealed in its pouch, but not refrigerated, just stored in cool conditions, and had no visible fog.

Fair comment, and I wouldn't argue for an instant about printability, but what's 'visible' fog? There's always a base density and I wouldn't like to put a number on 0.10 (typical FB+F for roll-film), 0.20, 0.30 (typical FB+F for 35mm), 0.40 or 0.50 without a densitometer or a known comparison density.

Cheers,

R.

PHOTOTONE · Mar 28, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Fair comment, and I wouldn't argue for an instant about printability, but what's 'visible' fog? There's always a base density and I wouldn't like to put a number on 0.10 (typical FB+F for roll-film), 0.20, 0.30 (typical FB+F for 35mm), 0.40 or 0.50 without a densitometer or a known comparison density.

Cheers,

R.

What I mean is that the unexposed areas of the film (behind the flaps of the holder) are clear, and appear to the naked eye to be as clear as fresh film. Undoubtedly there may be some fog buildup, but if it doesn't affect the printability of the image, it is of no concern to me.

PeterB · Apr 4, 2007

ic-racer said:
The 'fog' includes the area where the film sprocket holes are. It is uniform, over the whole film, not just the exposed area.

Perhaps you live in an area which has high terrrestrial (background) gamma radiation.

Different parts of the US have between 2.5 and 8.5 uR/hr of Gamma radiation

http://energy.cr.usgs.gov/radon/usagamma.gif

regards
Peter

MikeK · Apr 4, 2007

I have found that frozen films age very differently by manufacturer as well as speed.

I have film that has been frozen since the early 1980's and have been slowy using them up - what I have seen so far and have slowly working through my stash testing some samples
:
Efke R14 & R21 very high base fog, paper backing has begun to deteriorate; musty smell - not useable at all
Kodak Plus-X - high base fog, useable but would not risk for anything but test shots
Kodak TechPan - looks as good as the day I bought the stuff
Ilford Pan F - really good images. low base fog - pleasant suprise as I have about 40 rolls
Ilford FP4 - again good images, low base fog very useable
Ilford HP5 - OK images - slightly elevated fog, strange musty smell - but useable
Agfapan 25 - expired 1984 - images great - no noticeable fog
Agfapan 25 ortho - great images - low fog
Agfa 100 MATT expred 1986 - great images very low fog
Agfa 200 - expired 1984 - images OK - slightly high fog but useable
Agfa 400 - expired 198? - no good all at all - extremely high fog, mottled emulsion

Still have sheet films left to test including someSuper XX left - but nice to know I have a decent stash of film to work through.

All this film was either 120 of 4x5 sheet film developed primarily in D76 except for the Tech Pan which was developed in the powder developer.

We recently moved and found two bags (about 70 rolls) of various 35mm color film. These had been found in our garage where the summer temperature can get into the 100's - the wife toook them into a local pro-lab and had them all developed - some of these films were over 20 years old, wit others at least 15 years old - the results were amazingingly good - cost a packet - but worth it

Mike

Lee Shively · Apr 4, 2007

Sometime in the early 1980's, I did photos as part of an annual report and slide presentation for a large corporation. They provided the film. What I didn't shoot, I could keep. I dumped all the leftovers in the freezer and forgot about them until 1999 when I bought some new photo gear and decided to use the old film to check the camera and lens functioning. I was surprised at how well the film held up--it had expired in 1984 (if I remember correctly). All the film was 35mm Kodak E6. I forget specific types but I do remember there were a few rolls of Ektachrome 400 that looked as good as it ever did--that is, it still looked as bad as it ever did.

I have had a couple of bad experiences putting 35mm film back in the freezer after opening although it was replaced in the plastic canister. If the circumstances are right, moisture can form and the film will stick together and hang up a camera.

Photo Engineer · Apr 4, 2007

There are freezers and then there are freezers.

The normal chest or upright dedicated freezer can be set for temperatures below zero F which is far below zero C, but the normal freezer on the top or side of a household refrigerator generally runs at about 20 F - 30 F or just a tad below zero C.

The low temperature freezer will keep film better. The higher the speed, the worse the keeping as a general rule, just because of ambient radiation.

I'm still using Super XX that has not been refrigerated at all, and expired in 1988 or thereabouts. It really depends on the film.

My Agfa 1000 speed negative color film went bad nearly as fast frozen as it did at room temp.

PE

Black Dog · Apr 7, 2007

That's been my experience too-bad news for me as I'd like to freeze a load of APX 400. Ah well, I'll probably use it up all too quickly....

Woolliscroft · Apr 8, 2007

patrickjames said:
I am not an expert on this but I think that after the film has been exposed to light the latent image is much more sensitive to gamma rays, thus your fogged negs. If someone who knows better would clarify this it would be an interesting read.

Patrick

That would make sense. It would be the same effect as pre-flashing paper.

David.

Martin Reed · Apr 8, 2007

David Grenet said:
My understanding is that the latent image keeping properties of film (i.e. exposing, freezing, developing) are much worse than the stocking up and freezing keeping properties (i.e. freezing, exposing, developing) of film.

I kept a roll of Konica Infrared, (now discontinued) unfrozen in the fridge, for exactly 10 years and then exposed and processed alongside a fresh roll. This was used in an article in Ag magazine a few years ago. There was no increase in fog, or deterioration in quality in any way, although it had dropped speed by about half a stop.

braxus · Apr 8, 2007

Yes Ron your Super XX turned out quite good, but I thought you said it was from the 70s? Im still waiting for that special model before I use up what is left of SXX.

I hope film in a freezer lasts a long time because its going to take me forever before I use up what I have in my freezer here.

Freeze a decades worth of film? Really a good idea?

Advertiser

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency