Freestyle dropped Agfa Neutol WA

Andrew Moxom · Mar 5, 2008

So after responding to a post regarding somone not able to buy Agfa Neutol WA in the US. I'd stated it was available from Freestyle as I have a recent order of it delivered to me a few weeks back. I get an email from the APUG'er, and after checking, Freestyle appears to have stopped stocking Agfa Neutol WA. It's no longer a listing on their website. I thought that A&O were doing all of the manufacturing and distribution of the agfa chemicals, and am not sure what is going on with Freestyle in that regard, but was unaware that there were any problems. I have an email into their customer service center, and will post what they tell me up on here. Hopefully, it is just a website glitch. While it's not the end of the world like a paper going away, Neutol WA has been my staple print developer since I started back in 1990. Other devs are just as good I know, but still, it would be sad if it's been dropped.

PHOTOTONE · Mar 5, 2008

It's possible that the sales numbers at Freestyle were just not large enough to inventory this product. No company can stock everything.

Ulrich Drolshagen · Mar 5, 2008

The plant in Vaihingen, manufacuring the former Agfa-chemicals like Rodinal, Neutrol and the like has quietly changed into other hands. It seems not clear at the moment whether the new owner, Connect Chemicals Production & Services GmbH, will continue to supply these items in the future. Check this link for reference (it's german unfortunately). There is a thread on aphog.de, apug's little german sister . MACO-Photo claims to have at least stocked signifcant amounts of Rodinal. AFAIK they are the wholesale distributers for all Agfa-Photo chemicals in Germany. I think, they surely will deliver abroad too.

Ulrich

Andrew Moxom · Mar 5, 2008

I have it on good authority from Freestyle, that they have discontinued and run out of this product! Wow, that was quick! Time to sing it a hymn and move onto another developer! Oh well.

eclarke · Mar 5, 2008

Andrew, I don't know if this is really correct, but I have had it floating around in my files for awhile and after talking with you, dug it up and will try it. Ansco 130 with extra Carbonate has been my staple for nice blacks..Evan Clarke

Agfa Neutol WA formula (represented as)

distilled water 750ml

Sodium sulfite 36g

Hydroquinone 3.6g

Sodium carbonate 20g

Borax 10g

Phenidone .5g

Sodium ascorbate 4.5g

Benzotriazole 1% 10ml

distilled water to 1 liter

There was no dilution recommendation.

CBG · Mar 5, 2008

eclarke said:
...
Agfa Neutol WA formula

Distilled water 750ml
Sodium sulfite 36g
Hydroquinone 3.6g
Sodium carbonate 20g
Borax 10g
Phenidone .5g
Sodium ascorbate 4.5g
Benzotriazole 1% 10ml
Distilled water to 1 liter

...no dilution recommendation.

I saw a very different formula posted by Manfred - something like:

water -(50 °C) 300 ml
EDTANa4 10 g
potassium sulphite - (45%) 50 ml
hydriquinone - 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g
potassium sulphite - (45%) 450 ml
potassium carbonate - 45 g
potassium hydroxide - 15 g
potassium bromide - 10 g
Water to 1000 ml

Unfortunately I couldn't translate the original German: I don't quite get why the Potassium Sulfite is mentioned twice.

Neutol WA F&L
Achtung: Rezeptur für 1000 ccm Konzentrat! Recipe will give 1000 ccm of concentrate
Wasser water -(50 °C) 300 ccm
EDTANa4 10 g
Kaliumsulfitlösung potassium sulphite - (45%) 50 ccm
Hydrochinon hydriquinone - 45 g
Phenidon 1,5 g
Kaliumsulfitlösung potassium sulphite - (45%) 450 ccm
Kaliumcarbonat potassium carbonate - 45 g
Kaliumhydroxid potassium hydroxide - 15 g
Kaliumbromid potassium bromide - 10 g
Wasser auf 1000 ccm

pH-Wert (bei 1+9) 10,7010,90, Verdünnung für den Gebrauch: 1+7 bis 1+14. For use dilute 1 + 7 to 1 +14
Die Kallumsulfitlösung (45% w/w) wird auf zweimal zugegeben, damit die Entwicklersubstanzen geschützt sind und sich zügig lösen. Entwicklungszeit 11,5 min. Das Konzentrat ist in Glasflaschen gefüllt mehrere Jahre haltbar.
Developping time 60 to 90 seconds. Stored in a glass bottle the concentrate will keep several years
Source: Foto & Labor, 3/ 1996, page 17

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I wonder if anyone might know which is the correct formula.

C

eclarke · Mar 5, 2008

45g/l of Hydroquinone is really massive especially when combined with Phenidone. There is a thread which compares ID78 to this and I think that the ID78 formula is a good substitute....EC

Andrew Moxom · Mar 5, 2008

Thanks Evan. I think I'll use a generically available dev. For printing its not too much of big deal to me as others can and do work well....

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 5, 2008

Hey Andy,
that's too bad, but look on the bright side - it'll give you a chance to test the 130 developer. Let me know if you want to try a small batch and I'll give you a liter or two.
- Thomas

eclarke · Mar 5, 2008

Andrew Moxom said:
Thanks Evan. I think I'll use a generically available dev. For printing its not too much of big deal to me as others can and do work well....

Yea, day in and day out, Dektol is hard to beat. I've seen lots of great prints from Dektol...TTYL..Evan

eclarke · Mar 5, 2008

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Hey Andy,
that's too bad, but look on the bright side - it'll give you a chance to test the 130 developer. Let me know if you want to try a small batch and I'll give you a liter or two.
- Thomas

But,,, the 130 is really great.Evan

rknewcomb · Mar 5, 2008

So, is Rodinal gone as well?
Robert N.

Ulrich Drolshagen · Mar 6, 2008

rknewcomb said:
So, is Rodinal gone as well?
Robert N.

We just don't know actually as it seems

Ulrich

Henning Serger · Mar 6, 2008

rknewcomb said:
So, is Rodinal gone as well?
Robert N.

Hello Robert,

no, Rodinal is definitely not gone. It is available, and will be available in the future.
I'm using some of the A&O Agfa chemicals.Therefore I'm very interested in this topic. I have contacted the responsible persons and asked them. There are no delivery problems at all, it is enough stock around.
And most important: The new owner of the A&O chemical plant made an official statement, that the production of the Agfa chemicals will be continued.

So, no reasons to worry.

Best regards,
Henning

PHOTOTONE · Mar 6, 2008

Henning Serger said:
And most important: The new owner of the A&O chemical plant made an official statement, that the production of the Agfa chemicals will be continued.

So, no reasons to worry.

Best regards,
Henning

So I'm guessing that there is a temporary inventory shortfall, and it will be corrected quickly? Or they are setting up another distribution system, etc?

Ulrich Drolshagen · Mar 6, 2008

Ulrich Drolshagen said:
We just don't know actually as it seems

Ulrich

Hartmuth Schroeder of MACO-Photo, Hamburg, asked me to inform you that the new owner of the Vaihingen plant has promised to keep manufacturing Agfa-Photo chemicals already.
Hopefully he himself may tune into this thread and provide you with deeper insight in how matters lie.

Ulrich

Henning Serger · Mar 7, 2008

PHOTOTONE said:
So I'm guessing that there is a temporary inventory shortfall, and it will be corrected quickly?

No, probably not an inventory shortfall. At least not in Germany. The Agfa chemicals are made in the (former) A&O plant in Vaihingen, Germany. Now with a new owner who will continue production.The exclusive worldwide distributor is and will be in the future Maco Photo Products. No changes here.
I've got this answer directly from Maco.
And furthermore Maco has officially confirmed several times that they have thousands of bottles of Agfa chemistry in stock. Freestyle can get as much as they want.

PHOTOTONE said:
Or they are setting up another distribution system, etc?

No, no changes in distribution.

Best regards,
Henning

patrickjames · Mar 7, 2008

I have noticed that when Freestyle runs out of something it doesn't show up on their website until they have it back in stock. I could be mistaken on this though.

Ian Grant · Mar 7, 2008

eclarke said:
Andrew, I don't know if this is really correct, but I have had it floating around in my files for awhile and after talking with you, dug it up and will try it. Ansco 130 with extra Carbonate has been my staple for nice blacks..Evan Clarke

Agfa Neutol WA formula (represented as)
Sodium sulfite 36g
Hydroquinone 3.6g
Sodium carbonate 20g
Borax 10g
Phenidone .5g
Sodium ascorbate 4.5g
Benzotriazole 1% 10ml
distilled water to 1 liter

This is very unlikely be like Neutol WA because it contains Benzotriazole and not bromide, so is probably going to give Neutral to Cold tones. It may be similar to Neutol BL, NE or more probably Neutol Plus.

Ian

eclarke · Mar 7, 2008

Ian Grant said:
This is very unlikely be like Neutol WA because it contains Benzotriazole and not bromide, so is probably going to give Neutral to Cold tones. It may be similar to Neutol BL, NE or more probably Neutol Plus.

Ian

I got this by email and there was a note about using the bromide to warm it instead of BZT. I use BZT in 130 to cool the developer down for Ilford warmtone. I will make a couple liters and check it out...EC

mwdake · Mar 11, 2008

Freestyle has it back on the site in the 'What's New' section.

However.....
Expected delivery date from vendor: Apr 07, 2008.

Freestyle dropped Agfa Neutol WA

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