Frame numbering for Agfa and Ilford 120 films

[Davidz]

Dear all
I am trying to make sense of an archive of b/w 120 negatives from 1970s and 1980s. Mostly on Agfa SuperPan 24 but also some Ilford Isopan film.
i have a set of negatives cut into paired strips some of which are numbered 1 up to 15.
What would be very helpful would be information about the markings at the beginning and end of the films: I suspect the photographers were squeezing extra frames out of the films so I cannot make a blanket assumption about there being max 12 frames per film.


Also there are (what are probably) batch numbers
SuperPan 701
SuperPan 801
SuperPan 803 etc

Isopan 808 etc

Do these relate to identifiable manufacturing dates? Any help / suggestions where to look most gratefully received

best wishes
davidz

 

[klaus3428]

Negative Format 6 x 4.5 = 15 frames, not sure what you are looking at - I would guess the numbers (like 701) are just manufacturing references, I believe batch numbers are on the packaging with the BBE date.

 

[Agulliver]

What format are the negatives in? Is the aspect ratio square or oblong?

120 cameras could use various different formats. The most common for amateur use is 6x6cm per frame giving 12 per roll. These are the classic square photos that evoke the 60s and 70s.

But others exist including 6x4.5 which gives 15 exposures in a portrait orientation. . 4x4 which gives 16 smaller square exposures (often in cheap cameras for economy), and 6x9 which gives 9 exposures - often in early box type cameras and early folding cameras.

 

[DWThomas]

Actually, in my 6x9 camera, a 1950s vintage Ercona II folder, I only get 8 frames on a roll -- which I think is pretty much standard. My Perkeo II can put 13 6x6 on a roll -- which plays havoc with archiving the negatives, so I don't do that. Older cameras tend to index from numbers printed on the backing paper viewed through a red window, but many later cameras have built-in mechanical indexing that meters out the film. I believe 120 film goes back about a century, so there could be many variations on the theme over time.

The numbering on the backing paper (today) shows 16 6x4.5, 12 6x6, and 8 6x9; that would appear to be "standard."

I have noted some makers print frame numbers in the film rebate for both 6x6 and 6x4.5, others (Fuji Acros) appear to be numbered for only 6x4.5. Those alphanumeric markings shown in the OP could be batch numbers but look like typical film type designations. The different numbers could be different films altogether, or minor revisions of the same film broader than one batch. Mayhaps someone who actually knows those specific films will come along ....

 

[Gerald C Koch]

While there are some that consider it a badge of honor to squeeze and extra 37th frame from 135, is there enough film at the beginning and end of a 120 roll to get another frame. Even if there is for some formats it wouldn't work for cameras which rely on the red window to position the film.

 

[railwayman3]

I have some 120 Agfa B&W negs in my files, dating back to the 1960's. The frame numbers run from 1 to 15 inclusive, there is the name of the film (Isopan ISS), and an occasional very faint 3-digit number which appears to be a manufacturing reference.

I would perhaps doubt that the successors to the older Agfa-Gevaert company would have any manufacturing dates, OTOH you never know ? The only other source of information might be an historical photo archive, or some other web or book information on archiving ?

It would, as Aguilliver says, interesting to know the format.....I'm sure you can't squeeze an extra shot on 120 if you're using 12 6x6 frames, though you might do with a small frame format.

 

[Davidz]

Many thanks for these responses. All the negs are 6x6cm square. Very good to have confirmation that frames were numbered up to 15. I should have said I have been in contact with Agfa archives but no joy about matching these batch numbers with manufacturing dates and since none of the boxes survive (in the collection I am working on) there is no other information to work from.
Thanks again for your help
dz