FP4 with Pyrocat HD, help please

[George Collier]

I have finally gotten around to testing this combination with some form of stand development. My test:

Film rated at 64, Pyrocat HD 1:1:150 (in distilled water), at 70F (all solutions controlled),
2 min presoak
pour in the Pyro
1 minute agitation
Agitate every 7 min for 30 sec, for a total of 30 min dev time (3 agitation cycles after the initial minute).
This was 35mm film in a Nikkor/Kinderman tank with twisty inversions.

I gave it a 30 second agitation at the intervals, being somewhat apprehensive of uneven development with the stand method. I know, I read posts from you guys indicating I shouldn't have to worry about this, but I couldn't help it.

My question -
I printed the film today, and the edge quality (accutance) is as promised, the shadow through upper mid-tone separation is very nice (printed at a normal contrast). The only issue is that the overall range is a bit too much, maybe like a plus 1 - 2 in old ZSystem terms.

I can:
lessen the time (don't want to do this if the accutance will diminish)
lessen the agitation time at each interval
or increase dilution.

What would you experienced Pyro HD stand development guys recommend?

Except for the overall range, I really like the results.

 

[lee]

reduce the time accordingly.

lee\c

 

[juan]

The success of reduced agitation methods seems to vary a bit from practitioner to practitioner. I'd try reducing the time and reducing the agitation to twice, or maybe even once, after the initial agitation.
juan

 

[noseoil]

George, I think you have a winning combination. I would leave things alone, but reduce agitation times on the cycles (30 seconds is too much for stand development). Try using 10 second cycles, or even two inversions per cycle, to see what you get. Initial agitation determines even development.

Also, you may have a bit more exposure than necessary with stand development, try box speed with this processing. tim

 

[Willie Jan]

The success of reduced agitation methods seems to vary a bit from practitioner to practitioner. I'd try reducing the time and reducing the agitation to twice, or maybe even once, after the initial agitation.
juan

I think that what he want to know is how the get a lower overall contrast without lowering the highlight impression.

I did a test last weekend where i tried (6 stops scene, 1 stop overexposed) also the stand development with across. I came at 33 minutes with pyro at 1:1:100 20 Celc. agitation 1x 10 minutes. First 30 secs continue. the overall contrast is also still to high, and the highlight is ok. When developing at for ex. 28 min. the highlight will also get thinner...

The only thing i know to do is to overexpose the film more to get a good base and to get the contrast from the develop time. This is where i am at this moment...

 

[sanking]

You can do one of three things.

1. As Lee said, reduce overall time of development.

2. As Tim mentioned, shorten the agitation cycles to 10-15 seconds. 30 seconds is much too long. However, be sure to give a very full and energetic initial agitation of 1-1.5 minutes.

3. A third option is to us a slightly weaker dilution. Instead of 1:1:150, try 1:1:200, or 1.5:1:200-250. I personally recommend and use in my own work 1.5:1:200.

Sandy King

 

[Willie Jan]

Is it true that the effect of semi stand is not noticable when using 1:1:100 dilutions (there is enough developer available to last for 10 minutes in the highlights...)???

 

[sanking]

Is it true that the effect of semi stand is not noticable when using 1:1:100 dilutions (there is enough developer available to last for 10 minutes in the highlights...)???

That is not true. You can get some very noticeable adjacency effects with the 1:1:100 dilution using semi-stand agitation. However, the risks of uneven development are greater than when using a more dilute solution.

With the 1:1:100 dilution I would recommend an agitation schedule of no less than four cycles, one at the beginning for 1.5 minutes, the other three at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of total development.

Sandy King

 

[Willie Jan]

That is not true. You can get some very noticeable adjacency effects with the 1:1:100 dilution using semi-stand agitation. However, the risks of uneven development are greater than when using a more dilute solution.

With the 1:1:100 dilution I would recommend an agitation schedule of no less than four cycles, one at the beginning for 1.5 minutes, the other three at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of total development.

Sandy King

Thanks for the info.

i just came out of the darkroom where i did a test with fuji across. Shot a 6-7 stops landscape scene, shot it N+2 (placed III -> V). Developed it in pyrocat HD 1:1:200 21 Celc. Developed for 25 minutes. Agitation: first minute, after that 1 inversion at 12.5 minutes.
The negs hang to dry now, but the shadow detail looks ok, and the highlights are not to burned what i had before...

I use ilford fp4+ also at 4x5, so this one must be tested too...

 

[vet173]

If these are for enlarging and not contact you might end up at 18-20 min. At Sandys recomendation I use 1.5:1:200 for minimal agitation. I also shoot Fp-4 and across at 100.

 

[fhovie]

use the same process - rate the film at 80 or 100. It will expand a little - but not as much - If you want 9 or 10 zones - try tri-x. It does not expand contrast as readily as fp4. I use fp4 and 30 min stand almost exclusively for 4x5. I estimate most of the sbr I shoot is 5 stops or so - that makes n+1 or 2 desirable - I do rate it at 80 to 100 though

 

[Willie Jan]

Thanks for the info.

Is the benefit from using 1.5:1:200 over 1:1:200 that it slows the proces?
( I read that part B fastens the contrast and can be used fro expansion)

In my (small) studio i always use 3-4 stops, so no problem with normal development. But when shooting landscapes....