FP4 and Delta

RobC said:

I think spiral tanks with inversion processing and rotary system and stand development and small tankes are all pretty new ways of developing film. Going back not that long ago it was all deep tank with with dip and dunk and/or nitrogen burst agitation. There's progress for you, its introduced all these uneven devlopment problems.

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I know spiral tanks go back to the 1970s. I'm confident they go back a lot furthur.

Roger Cole said:

Jobo doesn't "require" a presoak and fill times are not longer. If anything they are shorter, much shorter with multiple reels. What it's does is effectively lengthen the development time required for a given contrast, and it seems to very nearly do so in proportion to the time that would otherwise be lessened by the constant agitation of rotary processing. It's really a matter of convenience to get your starting times closer to those typically given for inversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.

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I agree the tanks used for inversion processing fill very rapidly if they are standing upright but we are talking about the jobo processors where the tanks have cog lids and are on their side when filled. What you say is in direct opposition to what is being said at (there was a url link here which no longer exists) so you can resolve your differences between you. You can't both be right unless one of you is talking about tank lids used for inversion processing which I wasn't talking about.

And just for completeness from a Jobo publication on 2500 series tanks which are designed specifically for rotary processing...

For B/W films, pre-rinse in water for 5 minutes, then follow the chemical instructions for hand inversion times.

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Note:
The ATL1500 uses a 5 minute pre-rinse in its standard B+W film cycle too.

I think FP4 has a far more pleasing tonality. I guessed all right except #2. Whenever i saw a delta shot, it just didn't look right to me. Just a matter of taste really, but for me there is definitely a difference.

p.s. in response to rich 815.

Roger Cole said:

How short were those presoaks? I use five minutes.

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Me too, with a Jobo constant agitation technique.

Xmas said:

Gelatine is spongey.

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Porous, then?

RobC said:

I agree the tanks used for inversion processing fill very rapidly if they are standing upright but we are talking about the jobo processors where the tanks have cog lids and are on their side when filled. What you say is in direct opposition to what is being said at (there was a url link here which no longer exists) so you can resolve your differences between you. You can't both be right unless one of you is talking about tank lids used for inversion processing which I wasn't talking about.

And just for completeness from a Jobo publication on 2500 series tanks which are designed specifically for rotary processing...

Note:
The ATL1500 uses a 5 minute pre-rinse in its standard B+W film cycle too.

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Shrug. I have, and have used, inversion tanks, and now have, and use, a Jobo. I think I can pour the amount of solution needed for, say, four rolls of 120 into my Jobo lift a lot faster than into a four reel inversion tank. Of course the fact that the inversion tank requires substantially more solution impacts this as well, so the fill rate may not be that different.

And also of course, inversion tanks are BEST used already filled with solution and the entire stack of reels lowered into the tank in the dark. This will be faster and more even than either the Jobo lift or regular filling of the tanks, but I suspect most people do not actually do it that way.

Bottom line is I get good results with the five minute presoak and I don't intend to change it to satisfy someone on the Internet who doesn't agree. Or even Ilford. I break manufacturer's recommendations for many products frequently.

Roger Cole said:

I break manufacturer's recommendations for many products frequently.

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That's the spirit...

I guess someone will need to ask jobo why they recommend it then. Its either to get the temp up or to alleviate potential development marks or possibly in the belief its doing something else. However, the standard processes in an ATL 1500 don't use a pre-rinse for E-6 or C41 where temp is likely to be more critical so while they're talking to Jobo they may also like to ask why its only suggested/used for B+W films and not colour.

[/QUOTE]Bottom line is I get good results with the five minute presoak and I don't intend to change it to satisfy someone on the Internet who doesn't agree. Or even Ilford. I break manufacturer's recommendations for many products frequently.[/QUOTE]

Roger, I couldn't have said it better myself. John W