Fotospeed Variable Sepia Toner

jeroldharter · Nov 7, 2006

I tried Kodak brown toner and liked the results. However, I didn't like the hydrogen sulfide fumes, fogging potential, and higher temperatures needed.

I bought some Fotospeed Variable Selenium Toner from Freestyle that is said to be odorless. I assume that "odorless" means no hydrogen sulfide and therefore no fogging potential. The instructions do not spacifically address this. Am I correct?

Thanks.

glennfromwy · Nov 7, 2006

Is it sepia, or selenium? You are stating both.
The Fotospeed Sepia Toner has no objectionable odor.

jeroldharter · Nov 7, 2006

glennfromwy said:
Is it sepia, or selenium? You are stating both.
The Fotospeed Sepia Toner has no objectionable odor.

My mistake. I meant Variable Sepia Toner.

Ryuji · Nov 8, 2006

I've tried ALL sorts of brown toners and I could not get the results I like from odorless toner using thiourea, regardless of the toner pH, concentration, bleach formula, etc. So I use a homemade sulfur toning solution that smells like devil according to Chavez.

If you want rich shadow and subtle brown hue, it's hard to beat liver of the devil.

Bob F. · Nov 8, 2006

Yes: the toner will be completely odourless, with no fumes to fog paper.

It's also very simple to make thiocarbamide (thiourea) based toner yourself if you are into that: two chemicals for the bleach, two for the toner.

To get something like the Brown toner you will probably need to use the toner full strength and pull the print from the bleach well before it has reached completion.

As always, Tim Rudman's Toning book is the definitive publication on the subject.

Cheers, Bob.

ann · Nov 8, 2006

you could also try some Arista warmtone paper from freeststyle with selenium 1:3, believe it or not, the results were brown tones, not eggplant.

someone in my toning class brought prints in with this paper and we were all quite surprised to see the results.

the selenium used was KST, not fotospeed so i don"t know if you will get the same results. Tests done between selenium toners showed differences, but the above mentioned paper was not toned in various selenium toners just kodak's.

Kodak Brown toner does have an ordor but it is not the same as their sepia toners, and it is the sepia toner that has the potential for fogging.

if you don't heat the KBT and use with good ventilation you can reduce the smell.

Toning can be a "smelly" process, but the results may make up for it lol

ineffablething · Nov 8, 2006

I also cover the trays with a piece of plexi while using KBT. It definitely cuts down on the waves of funk washing across my countenance.

W.

tim rudman · Nov 8, 2006

jeroldharter said:
I bought some Fotospeed Variable Selenium Toner from Freestyle that is said to be odorless. I assume that "odorless" means no hydrogen sulfide and therefore no fogging potential. The instructions do not spacifically address this. Am I correct?

My mistake. I meant Variable Sepia Toner.

You are correct. Pretty safe to use in that respect. It is based on thiourea (AKA thiocarbamide) which is a carcinogen so don't slash it around excessively or drink it. I always use gloves (not woolley) to be on the safe side. I use a lot of this stuff. You can get the most astonishing range of 'browns' by various means.
Tim

cmichael · Nov 8, 2006

Lately, I have been doing Kodak Brown Toner processing in paper drums. This cuts down the smell considerably compared to the nasty odor you get using open trays. After toning, I run a quick wash in the drum and then pull the paper to give it a final soak in the paper washer.

jeroldharter · Nov 8, 2006

Thanks for all of the replies. Very helpful.

One more question. Someone mentioned that Kodak Brown Toner will not fog film/paper emulsions. Is that correct?

Ryuji · Nov 9, 2006

jeroldharter said:
One more question. Someone mentioned that Kodak Brown Toner will not fog film/paper emulsions. Is that correct?

No.

KBT, KRST, thiourea, sepia toner, ALL of them can fog emulsions.

tim rudman · Nov 9, 2006

Ryuji said:
No.

KBT, KRST, thiourea, sepia toner, ALL of them can fog emulsions.

Ryuji is correct that in theory Thiourea can fog emulsion but in practice the fogging risk is so much smaller that you are (in my experience) extremely unlikely to see it happening.
I never use the smelly sepias in my darkroom - always in the garage in my case. However, I do use the odourless thiourea based sepia a great deal and I always use it in the darkroom and get no fogging, even when I have papers open out of packaging in my light-tight drawer. Very low risk IME.
Tim

Ryuji · Nov 9, 2006

tim rudman said:
Ryuji is correct that in theory Thiourea can fog emulsion but in practice the fogging risk is so much smaller that you are (in my experience) extremely unlikely to see it happening.

Thiourea is a very potent fogging agent and it can fog emulsions very easily via chemical contamination. If you use the same tray/tongs/etc. for both dev and thiourea, you should wash twice before changing the solution. It's very easy to get strangely fogged prints.

tim rudman · Nov 10, 2006

Ryuji said:
Thiourea is a very potent fogging agent and it can fog emulsions very easily via chemical contamination. If you use the same tray/tongs/etc. for both dev and thiourea, you should wash twice before changing the solution. It's very easy to get strangely fogged prints.

We are talking at cross purposes here Ryuiji. You are quite right to point that out however.
My reply was written to address what I took to be the question, namely ...

"I assume that "odorless" means no hydrogen sulfide and therefore no fogging potential. The instructions do not specifically address this. Am I correct?"

I think the risk of fogging from fumes arising the darkroom from the tray of toner is negligible and in practice can be ignored with thiourea.

Contamination is another matter entirely and as a golden rule for all toning should be scrupulously avoided. I learned early on to use separate dedicated trays for each reagent. This saves much heart break at the toning stage, which is at the end of the process after much time has already been invested and is a bad time to make a mistake.

Tim

Fotospeed Variable Sepia Toner

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