Fotoman PS45 - Anyone got one?

Hi,

Dont those point and shoot 5x4 fotomans look great! I am not at all weak willed. I have plenty of lenses for 5x4/5x7 so the system is incredibly tempting.

I think they would be great for certain landscapes when traveling nd time is short,with wide lenses at f22 and hyperfocal distance would be all you need. No movements sure, but they can be used when a normal view camera is out of the question. Also, as I have wondered, wouldn't they be great for environmental portraits?

Spending time in Afghanistan, I have had scenes (such as smokey, flaming brick works) which would suit epic large prints. There are various people doing various jobs all withing the context of the brickworks, set against the mountains etc. A hand held bellows-less 5x4 would allow that detail to be captured and printed to a size that conveys the sense of awe. Shooting Hp5 in DDX or so would allow for plenty good enough speed at f16/22 to allow for hand held shots on say a 90mm. Even shooting on a tripod would be quick as there would not be any focus issues, esp using a hotshoe type finder. I rekon with practice one would be able to assess zocus zones just as RF users do and make sure that the subject is sharp and perhaps a bit fore and aft, but with teh focus trailing off into the distance. I have shot a fair amount on 35mm and have some shots I am really happy with, but there are a couple of scenes I wish to revisit crying out for a big neg and big printing. For 95% of shots 35mm has been indespensible as time available is measured in seconds. For those 5 % tho I want a big neg still......and I would have the time.

Anyone used one? how have they found them in use in the field where they have had to work reasonbly quickly?? I wonder if tripping the shutter is easy to do instinctively or is it pretty cumbersome and awkward to operate.

Will post existing Afghan images as soon as I can get access to a neg scanner here...in about 3 weeks I hope!

BTW I have been promoted and now find I have less time to get out taking pics in Afganistan. My initial reaction was to want my old job back.....


Tom

Tom,

I've never used a Fotoman camera, but did extensively use a 4x5 Sinar Handy which is a similar camera. I had a 75mm Super Angulon and a finder mounted on it. I sometimes used it handheld, but for most of what I did it was mounted on a tripod with a ball head. I kept the camera mounted on the tripod and it was very fast to set up and use. Basically it was a matter of lining up the shot, leveling the camera, checking the focus, and tripping the shutter- I could do it in less than a minute if I had to.

It sounds to me as if a Fotoman could be very useful for you, I'd urge you to try one out. Now, is there one in my future? Hmmm.....

Richard Wasserman

I think it is cool, but I bet you could use a relatively cheap old press camera almost as easily, and have a few movements when you wanted & had time.

I like the fotomans precisely because it has no movements to be knocked out of alignment, to get sticky with dust, to have to worry about. It is a case of focus and click and this is exactly what I want. not trying to sound butch here, but dark cloths are out full stop in Afghanistan. The dust, sun, wind and my unwillingness to stick my head under a darkcloth (and close eyes to all around) make it so, along with the need to make things happen fast. I like the fotoman because it is basically an agricultural 5x4 Alpa at 10% of the price,....with a bigger neg! Press kit is slower and I have already missed too many shots! I have found that more time is required to build rapport with the subjects and 'form the shot' than before, so I dont want too much to think about ie no more than using a manual RF camera. The Fotoman sounds about right, perhaps with a 65, 90, 135 or similar (which in the main I have). As it would be an either or, it would mean I could strip lenses off panels and know they would not be required on other cameras later on. at the price they are asking, esp with the modular finders, the costs can be kept down, unlike other 6x12 systs like horseman, linhof etc. Hats off to Fotoman! I see teh 5x4 as being optimal as it really is handholdable.

At the moment I can stretch to 645 in the circumstances I shoot. 5x4 is in another league and I have some big wall pieces in mind! We will see. My issue at this stage is ones ability to know when the shutter is gong to trip when using one of those affixed cable releases. maybe with familiarity one would know when it will click?

A cable release on a LF lens is an infinitly testable thing until you pull the dark slide, and the shutters make a pretty satisfyng click, so thats not one to worry too much over.

A press camera like a crown graphic can be shot using its gunsight, same as the Fotoman, but has a GG when you want it. A Fotoman needs a different cone for each lens, so compared to a lens board camera, lens changes are cumbersome, and each cone and lens has to be shimmed and focused in the beginning, and checked periodically thereafter. You also need to make sure that a cone exists for the lens you intend to use. They have a list on their website. Dirt and dust are a nemisis in any wind in a desert, the deserts of utah are made of sand and grit and the wind blows here too. You won't find the Fotoman that much better, and much worse to clean when sand gets in the helical focusing mechanism. Get some jewelers tools. (I have the 6x17, so I am not talking out my butt.) Also get some blue lock tite and take the camera apart and do every screw, or some of them won't be there a couple of weeks later. I don't understand why, but I have never had as many screws come out, as with this camera. I'm pretty on top of it now.

Fotoman cameras are solid and simple.
You might really dig it. A Crown or Speed Graphic is fast, simple, probably as reliable, cheaper and much more flexible. Whatever you choose, you're going to be pleased with the larger neg.

JBrunner said:

A cable release on a LF lens is an infinitly testable thing until you pull the dark slide, and the shutters make a pretty satisfyng click, so thats not one to worry too much over.

A press camera like a crown graphic can be shot using its gunsight, same as the Fotoman, but has a GG when you want it. A Fotoman needs a different cone for each lens, so compared to a lens board camera, lens changes are cumbersome, and each cone and lens has to be shimmed and focused in the beginning, and checked periodically thereafter. You also need to make sure that a cone exists for the lens you intend to use. They have a list on their website. Dirt and dust are a nemisis in any wind in a desert, the deserts of utah are made of sand and grit and the wind blows here too. You won't find the Fotoman that much better, and much worse to clean when sand gets in the helical focusing mechanism. Get some jewelers tools. (I have the 6x17, so I am not talking out my butt.) Also get some blue lock tite and take the camera apart and do every screw, or some of them won't be there a couple of weeks later. I don't understand why, but I have never had as many screws come out, as with this camera. I'm pretty on top of it now.

Fotoman cameras are solid and simple.
You might really dig it. A Crown or Speed Graphic is fast, simple, probably as reliable, cheaper and much more flexible. Whatever you choose, you're going to be pleased with the larger neg.

Click to expand...

Cheers J,

I am a bit confused. I guess unscrewing the cones is much slower thanp popping a lens panel off? I think I would keep the numebr of lenses right down to 2 (75/120) or 3 (65,90,135) to keep things simple. With my knowledge here increasing, I think I would have a good idea of what lens I need before I stop the car. My concern over a press camera is their increased vulnerability and complexity ie bellows, cams, locks etc. At leat the fotoman is a real point and shoot. Or seems to be......I had an MPP Mk 7 and it was heavy and cumbersome and also was no good with short lenses. This again is where the fotoman excels. I have however never used a cron graphic or similar and I hear they are very light. Maybe I need to get my hands on one first...but there are not too easy to find in Kabul!

I too have been looking at the Fotoman and am awaiting to hear about field test by individuals. I shoot Graphics now, sometimes handheld, and find that although it's a quite doable process, it is also a camera with a bed sticking out a little too far for me, and it is not a smaller handheld. I always wondered about taking the cover off and putting the focusing mechanism in the body at front edge. It would then only allow very short lenses such as a 90mm; Maybe. I've also thought of cutting the bed in half right in front of the struts and trimming a half moon shape to allow the lens to poke out with the cover closed. For the trouble the Fotoman would probably be a better compromise for handheld shooting, but one must determine how much handheld 4x5 they actually do. Sometimes you need a bellows and that's all there is to it.

I do not have a Fotoman but I have a very similar Gran View, with nose cones for 90 and 65 mm lenses and 2 helical mounts for 90 mm Angulon and 90 mm Super Angulon respectively. It was one of those cameras that I thought I would use a lot but didn't - almost always when I used it, I missed having movements, and my first-choice camera for dirty conditions became my Fuji GW690III. I really hesitate to use LF lenses in dirty or damp conditions, the shutter casings simply have too many openings.

Regards,

David

Tom Stanworth said:

Cheers J,

I am a bit confused. I guess unscrewing the cones is much slower thanp popping a lens panel off? I think I would keep the numebr of lenses right down to 2 (75/120) or 3 (65,90,135) to keep things simple. With my knowledge here increasing, I think I would have a good idea of what lens I need before I stop the car. My concern over a press camera is their increased vulnerability and complexity ie bellows, cams, locks etc. At leat the fotoman is a real point and shoot. Or seems to be......I had an MPP Mk 7 and it was heavy and cumbersome and also was no good with short lenses. This again is where the fotoman excels. I have however never used a cron graphic or similar and I hear they are very light. Maybe I need to get my hands on one first...but there are not too easy to find in Kabul!

Click to expand...

The cones are held on to the camera with four screw knobs.
It takes about 1 minute for me to unscrew them, swap lens&cone and screw them back in. It take about longer for me to get a lens out of my bag than it does to swap lenses on a lensboard camera, so yes it takes longer to change lenses on the Fotoman. However when you see something to photograph in your situation, I bet you will use whatever happens to be on the camera, no matter changing time.

A Graphic is pretty simple, and pretty rugged. but the Fotoman is literally milled out of a block of aluminium, and it is heavy. I think you could manage either, If you never want movements, or your going to get a view camera eventually, then the Fotoman might be the way to go. If you are looking for the most flexibility from a camera, a press camera might be the best choice. They were designed with snap shooting in mind, but have some movements that can get you by for a nice landscape, or some very modest architecture.
Or If you are contracting GAS get the Fotoman, a Crown Graphic, and a view camera or two

J,

I have a few view cameras and would not dream of using them here. Too big, heavy, complex and mine are not handholdable. I dunno what to do. A fotoman would actualy be cheaper new than a Fuji GSW690III used and I can change lenses. I take the comment some made about shutters being open to the elements. At least they can be serviced I s'pose. Th frustrating thing is that I am very happy with most of what I have done here with 35mm, it is just those few images where even 645 is not big enough for what I want to have as the end result (30-40" mono hand prints). These are images I really want too, esp as I know I can go back and the brickworks etc will still be there! As the security situation continues to deteriorate, I want to get them soon too. Should be some great shots in winter too, but I suspect I will leave before winter gets truly underway.

Tom

I guess it's time to chime in... due to unforseen delays of the final packaging, delivery of 45PS cameras will commence in about one week (1st week of July).

There are currently two sets of cameras in the hands of formal reviewers. Ted Harris is doing a review for VC magazine. Stuart Franklin (the head of Magnum UK) who will report on field and aerial shooting with the 45PS as part of a project documenting receding glaciers.

Sand and Dust - the 45PS camera is not immune to the problems caused by sand and dust. The clearances in our HFM would make it difficult for sand to enter, but dust is another story. As far as dust on film goes, we would strongly advise only shooting Readyloads or Quickloads in these conditions.

Movements - we plan to offer a Shift Adapter (development is underway) that will offer rise and fall of 35mm. Needless to say this will add mass and weight to the camera, negating it's effectiveness as a Point and Shoot camera. However the shift adapter will affix to the camera just like a lens cone (via 4 knurled head screws), so it will be quite easy to remove or re-affix as needed.

Any adverse dirty condition is tough with any camera system. I have found that in the worst, a good cleaning every night, or even more frequently can help prevent major problems.

I took my 6x17 to Europe and it worked well as a snap cam, and on a tripod, but when I had time, I sorely missed movements. My crown could have done the same duty, but I wanted Pano.

It always boils down to how specialized something is. I have no doubt that the Fotoman 4x5 is a brutally efficient and very durable 4x5 handheld camera.
I think in this case, your choice might depend on how important having some movements available are.

Aside from the loose screw issue, I have been very pleased with my 6x17, but then I was after a 6x17 panoramic.
Fotoman makes a good product, and I'm not trying to talk you out of it.

I've got the camera setup with the 75mm cone and a 75mm 4.5 Grandagon N mounted and ready to go. All we need is for the rain to stop for more than 5 minutes. I'll be putting the camera through its paces with the 75 and with a 135 Apo Sironar S. As soon as I get to run a few sheets of film through the camera I promise an image and a few comments here.

Ted Harris said:

I've got the camera setup with the 75mm cone and a 75mm 4.5 Grandagon N mounted and ready to go. All we need is for the rain to stop for more than 5 minutes. I'll be putting the camera through its paces with the 75 and with a 135 Apo Sironar S. As soon as I get to run a few sheets of film through the camera I promise an image and a few comments here.

Click to expand...

Excellent - Cant wait to hear your comments!

I think in many respects conditions and opportunities here are unique. Movements are not really relevant due to subject matter and lack of opportunity (or wisdom) when it comes to using GG. I was looking at the Fotoman because of the ability to use it purely as a point and shoot, using the finders - basically the ability to do what one does with a Bronica RF645/Mamiya 7 in a scenic stopped down capacity, but with the far larger neg, albeit with reduced handling. Altho the lack of movements I am sure would be annoying when for example choosing low view points against vertical components in the images, one has the same trouble with any non view camera. If one is prepred to spend the time on the final prints, this can be corrected in the darkroom (along with much swearing both for the print and re-zeroing everything afterwards!). As I am aiming for some whopper prints (have to get the shot first!) I would be prepared to spend that time.

The light weight of the fotoman in transit is a bonus for flights. This said, I have changed (job) roles and struggle to get out now, so getting the shots I want becomes my sole focus now. I am not going to be able to do much more 'opportunistic out and about' stuff, so will focus almost entirely on the shots I can go and find in known locations, to a known time frame. For these I want a big neg!

Thanks for all your comments, very helpful.

Tom