Fotokemika ...

Pioneer · Aug 22, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Richard;

It will most likely come down to making your own handcrafted films and papers. You would think that there would be some groundswell in reaction with people inquiring about methods and etc, but things are as usual on this front. Minimal interest. That is about 100 people out of the 50,000 APUG membership.

PE

I do believe that you are right PE. This is not going to get better for awhile, if at all. Film is rapidly becoming a boutique industry and even the Ilfords of the world will find it tough to keep going, and they probably have a better chance then most.

I am certainly interested in learning to coat my own emulsions. I have an older Cambo 8x10 as well as a couple 4x5 cameras I have held onto. I have bookmarked the light farm, have read a lot of Denise Ross's work, and have been following emulsion coating in a few forum posts here and on LargeFormatPhotography. But I suspect that I may have to put some money away for a workshop of some type real soon. It would certainly be nice to find something out West, closer to where I live, as travel funds are a bit tight and going East may not be easy to do.

I'll have to do some checking to see what is available.

Roger Cole · Aug 22, 2012

Richard Jepsen said:
I was hoping the EMAKS would live much longer. It was my baseline paper. And so it joins Forte PWT, Bergger and Oriental whose special atributes were toning/tint, surface and paper contrast.

I will think positive. Ilford Galerie is great in it's own rights. It produces lush deep blacks, a smooth tonal progression, a unique gray tone, and clean whites. Not all my negatives print well on it, but I can learn to calibrate the remaining films to Galerie and other available VC papers.

We all need to mentor someone to pick up anolog photography.

Oriental is still available AFAIK, at least the VC. Maybe you mean the graded?

I'd be interested in making my own if it were the only viable alternative. Even so it would cut way back on my photography with yet another thing to do to get an image and a fairly involved one at that. Right now there's still too much good material still available for me to invest the time in that. I never even used Efke film or paper, except for the Silver Artist that they coated, and that just came out. I didn't have enough time to get used to it in order to actually miss it.

Photo Engineer · Aug 22, 2012

Pioneer said:
I do believe that you are right PE. This is not going to get better for awhile, if at all. Film is rapidly becoming a boutique industry and even the Ilfords of the world will find it tough to keep going, and they probably have a better chance then most.

I am certainly interested in learning to coat my own emulsions. I have an older Cambo 8x10 as well as a couple 4x5 cameras I have held onto. I have bookmarked the light farm, have read a lot of Denise Ross's work, and have been following emulsion coating in a few forum posts here and on LargeFormatPhotography. But I suspect that I may have to put some money away for a workshop of some type real soon. It would certainly be nice to find something out West, closer to where I live, as travel funds are a bit tight and going East may not be easy to do.

I'll have to do some checking to see what is available.

Yes, Denise was a student of mine several years ago. She is a superb photographer.

Mark Osterman and I teach joint courses at George Eastman House in Rochester. Our next course will either be Azo / Lupex type papers for contact printing, or Kdoabromide / Brovira type papers for enlarging. This will probably be in 2013.

PE

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 22, 2012

Roger Cole said:
Oriental is still available AFAIK, at least the VC. Maybe you mean the graded?

I'd be interested in making my own if it were the only viable alternative. Even so it would cut way back on my photography with yet another thing to do to get an image and a fairly involved one at that. Right now there's still too much good material still available for me to invest the time in that. I never even used Efke film or paper, except for the Silver Artist that they coated, and that just came out. I didn't have enough time to get used to it in order to actually miss it.

Roger, Fotokemika makes/made two types of papers. Emaks is their graded paper, and Varycon is their variable contrast one. Both have a similar glossy surface, and paper color. Very beautiful stuff. Emaks gets deeper and richer blacks than Varycon (in my experience), but both are truly superb products. Efke films - well I've had mixed luck with them. A bit inconsistent from box to box, but really nice tonality.

Curt · Aug 23, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Richard;

It will most likely come down to making your own handcrafted films and papers. You would think that there would be some groundswell in reaction with people inquiring about methods and etc, but things are as usual on this front. Minimal interest. That is about 100 people out of the 50,000 APUG membership.

PE

Ron, at my age, 60, I can't become a lab monkey. I have a BS and have a couple years of chemistry and many other sciences. By the time I learned the technical process and set up a lab I'd be even older. There's no way I can make a film like Kodak in a couple months. I'd recommend younger people get into it though. It's plenty of work for me to make carbon prints.

I don't really know what would motivate a person to make film. As long as there is film there won't be a flood of people eager to make their own. Human nature I suppose.

Curt

Roger Cole · Aug 23, 2012

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Roger, Fotokemika makes/made two types of papers. Emaks is their graded paper, and Varycon is their variable contrast one. Both have a similar glossy surface, and paper color. Very beautiful stuff. Emaks gets deeper and richer blacks than Varycon (in my experience), but both are truly superb products. Efke films - well I've had mixed luck with them. A bit inconsistent from box to box, but really nice tonality.

I understand that, and was aware of Varycon and Emaks. I was replying to a poster who listed Oriental as a no longer available paper. The graded yes, the VC, no - or at least I've heard nothing about it and dealers still list it.

My experience with the Arista Silver Artist, widely thought (and all but confirmed by Freestyle when they told me this would impact their being able to supply it) to be Varycon emulsion coated on to that cotton rag fine art paper, was that it is a very nice emulsion. Not, however, anything all that different from other emulsions for conventional printing. I realize that it is said to lith print very well and I've received one or two (not sure now) lith prints through the FADU print exchange, so that's something I was thinking about experimenting with. Sigh. OTOH, one thing I did not like about the Arista Silver Artist is that it resists toning, at least with the single solution brown toner I'm so fond of with MGWTFB. I haven't yet tried it in selenium or bleach/redevelop sepia. Not much point in really working out what works best with it now. That would eat my remaining small supply of this paper, perhaps 10 sheets of 8x10 and an unopened 10 sheet pack of 11x14, when I could just use it to make regular prints I know will work untoned.

Again, sigh.

But still - we do have a very good selection of excellent analog black and white materials available, both film and paper.

Roger Cole · Aug 23, 2012

Curt said:
Ron, at my age, 60, I can't become a lab monkey. I have a BS and have a couple years of chemistry and many other sciences. By the time I learned the technical process and set up a lab I'd be even older. There's no way I can make a film like Kodak in a couple months. I'd recommend younger people get into it though. It's plenty of work for me to make carbon prints.

I don't really know what would motivate a person to make film. As long as there is film there won't be a flood of people eager to make their own. Human nature I suppose.

Curt

My point is related. If I were retired, if I had ample time, I'd love to learn emulsion making. Or wet plate photography. Or both and more. But I'm not and I don't. Severe lack of time is the biggest constraint on my photography now (or, more correctly, uninterrupted blocks of sufficient time when I am also well rested and up to taking advantage of it.) I have film I shot last year that I still haven't developed, many negatives to print, slides piled up in boxes to be sorted - I just don't have time to also coat my own. Hopefully commercial materials will last until I retire and that changes, at least.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

Curt said:
Ron, at my age, 60, I can't become a lab monkey. I have a BS and have a couple years of chemistry and many other sciences. By the time I learned the technical process and set up a lab I'd be even older. There's no way I can make a film like Kodak in a couple months. I'd recommend younger people get into it though. It's plenty of work for me to make carbon prints.

I don't really know what would motivate a person to make film. As long as there is film there won't be a flood of people eager to make their own. Human nature I suppose.

Curt

Curt;

Although I had a long background in photography, all aspects, I did not start this emulsion making work until I had been retired for several years. I was determined to make it simple for the very reasons you comment on.

The process is mainly time consuming, as it just about doubles the time from snapping the shutter until seeing the image! This is not harder, just longer!

Several students of mine are now out there making film and paper for their own images.

PE

georg16nik · Aug 23, 2012

Usually only people who haven't tried *something* are the ones who insist its not possible.
More people will start making film and paper, even the kids know that.
The number is growing.

erikg · Aug 23, 2012

I may have to go down the emulsion making path someday, but for now it isn't a question of saying it's not possible, I'm sure I could do it (eventually). For me it's just a question of time. Between supporting a family and staying current in my profession I have very little time to give to my own work, if I had to become both photographer and factory very little would get done. It's not for lack of interest. Sad to see these companies pass, I feel badly for the workers.

georg16nik · Aug 23, 2012

Michael R 1974 said:
There's a quite a difference between it being possible to make something, and being able to make something of high quality to exacting standards.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather not go backwards with film technology. We want the best we can get. If I'm used to the current generation of Ilford and Kodak films, I'll be pretty unhappy having to switch to somebody's home brewed version of 1950s Tri-X. No thanks.

When "We want the best we can get" is difficult, only people who have a strong stake will participate.
If You want the best, then You might need to learn how to get it
The 1950s Tri-X was not bad, not bad at all.

Pioneer · Aug 23, 2012

There is no argument that coating your own film will not be like the latest emulsions that are presently available from Kodak, Fuji, Ilford or Fotokemika. There are still a lot of very nice films out there. I do enjoy using Efke 25 films, so as long as there is film available from their stocks I will continue to purchase a little every month and put it on ice. But I also like Pan F 50 and FP4 Plus 125 so I will begin buying more of those films as well. I will also continue to buy and use Kodak's Portra films, as well as Gold 100 and 200 as long as I can afford them. One of the reasons that I haven't listed Fuji's fine slide films is that they are rapidly pricing themselves out of my reach. I use less and less. But, nonetheless, I hope we all continue to enjoy these films.

But at the same time I intend to start learning to make my own simple films. I have no misconceptions that they will ever be the same high quality films that we presently enjoy, but they are film, and I have seen some of the results. And I like it. I think others will as well. And while I expect that professional films will always be available, I am not so sure that I will be able to afford to use them as often as I do now. An inexpensive, homemade, alternative may be very welcome in the near future.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

I suggest that those of you interested in this buy my book and DVD set. They are advertized here on APUG and can be purchased through the Photographers Formulary or Fotoimpex.

PE

ADOX Fotoimpex · Aug 23, 2012

JPD said:
Mirko, is there any possibility that you will take over some of the machinery? I don't remember if it was you who once said that you wanted to move the production of the Adox films to Germany? You, of course, have more information about this than any of us, so I apologize beforehand if something impossible is suggested.
How about the equipment for cutting and spooling 127-film? It would be very sad if this film format totally disappears from the market.

Patrick,

actually we don´t need any additional equipment.
We have all we need here in our factory.
With 127 I can imagine that Fotokemika continues to spool it.
They get out of coating but not entirely out of business.
Probably they continue in the medical market with trade and confectioning.

Kind regards,

Mirko

Brian C. Miller · Aug 23, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Richard;

It will most likely come down to making your own handcrafted films and papers. You would think that there would be some groundswell in reaction with people inquiring about methods and etc, but things are as usual on this front. Minimal interest. That is about 100 people out of the 50,000 APUG membership.

PE

Money. And sort of space.
Yesterday I went down to Glazer's Camera. I was going to buy some Fotokemika-made products, but on the shelf there was 8x10 E100G!! Wow! Guess what I bought, at nearly $800. Yeah, four boxes of 8x10 E100G. So the money went to film instead of buying a coating blade from Photographer's Formulary. Sure, it's a matter of choice, but one never will be made again, and I can buy a coating blade later.
As for space, my bathroom is my darkroom, and can be seen in the Makeshift Darkrooms thread. Not a lot of space in there for a coating operation, but it can be done with some organization. I can set up for film developing, and then tear it down. I can set up for printing, and then tear it down. At some point I will make a cart for dry plate and making film. But not for a while yet. Not because I'm not interested, but because there's other priorities for photographic money.

Yeah, what I make at home won't be the equal of Kodak or Ilford. And I won't be able to make IR due to lack of dye. But it's something that I can do myself, and I would do it if I couldn't get any film at all. But of course since I shoot 4x5 and 8x10 (and I really like those formats), I have the option of plate processes. If I were strictly a roll film user, I'd be more than a bit worried. 35mm film needs the sprocket holes punched, and 120 needs paper backing, which won't last forever. And of course there's a problem with buying the support base. So I plan to start with wet plate and dry plate, and go to coating film and paper later.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

Brian;

Mark Osterman has a series of excellent workshops in wet plate and dry plate. So does his wife.

See their schedule on-line.

PE

mikendawn · Aug 23, 2012

Personally, I pay more for the EFKE films already. I actually request the EFKE film when they have it in over the Ilford and Fuji B&W films.
The classic emulsions of Efke suit me nicely as it goes hand in hand with the "Classic" looking portraits I shoot with 4x5 or with 120.
I haven't used much in the way of their 35mm films, aside from the IR820 which is stunning, but the IR820 in 4x5 is just phenomenal..

This is a very sad announcement indeed, and I truly hope to see this film on the market for many more years to come....

I guess that means it is time to start stocking up!

madgardener · Aug 23, 2012

I know this thread is about Efke, but I wonder about the making of IR film. I wonder if it would be possible for someone to produce their own IR film and start selling it? Prices would be very high due to economies of scale, but hopefully affordable.

It sounds like ADOX is prepared to continue making the ISO 25 and 50 classic formulas, so it could be much worse. Unfortunately, I am not set up for printing so the photo papers will have to wait.

zsas · Aug 23, 2012

I respectfully disagree with the digression this thread has taken. Mirko and Darko have all but confirmed that Fotokemika has ceased production of film and paper. Is there anyway that folks can discuss emulsion making/coating etc., elsewhere, like the Emulsion Making discussion section of Apug? I find it a bit distasteful, as there are hard working employees whose lives are sadly affected. I read this thread intently looking for a hopeful happy update and digressions as to why one should/shouldn't coat his/her materials to be too far from the topic at hand. Can these do it your self emulsion coating threads be continued in the hand coating apug section? Maybe this thread can deal with what stock is avail, when, where, and a hopeful update from Darko/Mirko that production has started again

matti · Aug 23, 2012

ADOX Fotoimpex said:
Well how much Forte do you have left?
With a little luck we are done until then ;-)

http://polywarmton.com/page5/page5.html

I had forgotten about that project. (Been away from APUG for some time.) I think Forte will always be my favorite so this is great news! I really have a lot of large Forte graded papers left though, but plan to print a lot as well!

/matti

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

And, as for Kodak: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kodak-takes-next-steps-toward-200600489.html

PE

padraigm · Aug 23, 2012

Yeah saw that. Not sure what it all means.. Could be good or bad I guess. I don't think spin-offs do so well typically. So basically if nobody wants to by the film division its gone???

Photo Engineer said:
And, as for Kodak: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kodak-takes-next-steps-toward-200600489.html

PE

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

No, it is not gone, it is making too much money.

PE

padraigm · Aug 23, 2012

Phew "keep calm and shoot Tri-x i guess"

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 23, 2012

As long as it's out from under Perez and company, there has to be some hope. This is definitely the best option. No guarantees, but staying put was certain death. Let's hope things can be worked out. It won't be Kodak anymore. But that's preferable to the alternative.

Ken

Fotokemika ...

Partner

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency