Forte stop it's production

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

Ted Harris said:
First off I'll put this in the unconfirmed rumor category for the moment and hope that I am right. If some of the folks ffrom Fotoimpex and others that sell rebranded Forte film make any confirming posts then I will begin to mourn. Second, with all due respect to the possible truth of the original post, it is tough to swallow when I think of all the Forte film that is sold by others and rebranded as their own. Next, even if true it may not be the end of the world. It could be an opportunity for some of the other European film manufacturers to enter the sheet film market if they see a niche that can earn €'s that has become a void worth filling. Finally, while I have never used any of the films produced by Chinese companies I am willing to give them a chance.

I do hope I am not being overly optimistic.

First; who do you really think you are that you think they going or should to inform you? Second; they are all busy to repack low quality Russian or Chinese film in their boxes. Third; it never was their intention to tell you anything from the beginning!

Because you are as you sound and don't read things at all and you told me before that I'm on you ignore list! So why even bother?

This letter come to me from Forte and I advise you to read it! It had been published on the first page as the answer to Firecrocker

Dear xxxxxx.

To our greatest regret we have to advise you that the owners have come to the decision to stop the production of Forte photographic products by January 26th, 2007 definitely.

The factory established by George Eastman as a Kodak Factory in 1922, as well its successors have been manufacturing mainly black & white photo films and papers of superior/high quality especially with warm tone, in a very wide range.

During the past decade the demand for black & white photo products felt back drastically due to the fast technological development, that is confirmed even by the sales figures of your country.

The factory has been working with huge overcapacities, and on a large piece of ground, with uneconomical infrastructure resulting in continuous losses.

Considering the above, the long negotiations with several potential industrial investors have failed.

We thank you for your several years’/decades’ smooth and fruitful co-operation, and wish you good success in the future.

Best regards,

Béla Kummer, Gen. Manager László Varga, Com. Adviser Edit Stirling, Area Manager Attila Ollé,Area Manager

Roger Hicks · Jan 12, 2007

uraniumnitrate said:
First; who do you really think you are that you think they going or should to inform you?

Calm down. We might as well ask who you think you are, given that plenty of people with good connections (including importers, etc) have not received the same letter. No-one really wants to call you a liar, but any rational person would want at least one confirmation of a story like this. Let's hope you are the victim of a hoax, unlikely though it seems.

Cheers,

R.

naturephoto1 · Jan 12, 2007

This is very unfortunate and disappointing if correct as to the loss of another maker of photographic paper.

By the way uraniumnitrate, Ted Harris is a Contributing Editor for View Camera Magazine and a Forum Moderator at Large Format Photography Forum.

Rich

Lee Shively · Jan 12, 2007

It's disturbing but I agree we should calm down and wait for more confirmation. There's nothing on the Forte website about this but that doesn't mean much. I'm not running up my credit card balance this time like I did when the Ilford rumors started. The sky is not falling, you know.

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

naturephoto1 said:
This is very unfortunate and disappointing if correct as to the loss of another maker of photographic paper.

By the way uraniumnitrate, Ted Harris is a Contributing Editor for View Camera Magazine and a Forum Moderator at Large Format Photography Forum.

Rich

I don't care! He should have read the whole topic! And it doesn't matter who he is! The repacking never had any intentioner to play with open cards at all!
And the letter from Forte to me is real with names and all! Than I must be somebody isn't it?

Curt · Jan 12, 2007

I was using Nuance and really liking it until the end of JandC. Now I will find another paper and will try to buy as much as I can afford. It's not a perfect solution but what can one do? It's the end of an era. All a person can do is try to be ready for the end of products we use and explore new ones. Every time an announcement of this kind hits the public many film photographers and would be's just give up. Not everyone is willing to make their own materials.

This is another one caused by the change to digital. I read somewhere that Crown Photo invented some of the automated equipment to process film. In their day they were state of the art.

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/01/05/100loc_a1photo001.cfm

I remember going to the Cliff House Museum in the 1950's and seeing Mummy's and Art from around the world. It was really incredible to be young and see all of that in a huge building on a cliff hanging over the Pacific Ocean. I took my wife there in the late '90's and it was all gone. It was the first realization that nothing if forever. You must enjoy what you have because it will certainly change.

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

Lee Shively said:
It's disturbing but I agree we should calm down and wait for more confirmation. There's nothing on the Forte website about this but that doesn't mean much. I'm not running up my credit card balance this time like I did when the Ilford rumors started. The sky is not falling, you know.

It's not but it's maybe time for me to consider going over to digital as I have lost thre of my favorite material. And now is nothing left except Kodak films. Well it doesn't bother me much either because I do gum print's its just not feet on all of my images! Maybe I should consider to begin with carbon too!

lightranger · Jan 12, 2007

I just order some Forte paper yesterday from B&H Photo. I had a friendly talk with the sale person about the recent losses of traditional darkroom materials. We talked about the various products that have disappeared,(I was hoping to buy another can of Tetenal Anti Newton Spray), but it's no longer imported to the U.S. from Germany. I am fairly certain that he had no knowledge of this rumor of Forte demise. I guess we will all have to wait and see. I am sure there will be light at the end of the tunnel after the market shakes out. Hang in there.

haris · Jan 12, 2007

kjsphoto said:
If people would stop screwing around and talking about I like this or I like that and just buy the products then this wouldn't happen. But with all the talk and no one buying what can we expect. One box a year is not going to keep anyone in business.

If we don't buy products film will be gone in no time flat and we can only blame ourselves.

Not quite so.

I bought last year 200 rolls of film (35mm and 120), few boxes of paper and few liters of chemistry. This year will be simillar, maybe more, especially paper I finally going to FB and bigger sizes. And this or year next I plan to go LF, probably 20x25cm and contact printing. And I am hobby photographer with about 500EURO monthly income. I assume pro photographers or people who have more income buys much more...

But problem is also that companies acting not only by situation they are but also by assuming future. So, imagine situation in which management of company say "Last year we earned x amount of money, this year y amount which is less than x, but still we earned, we think we will make next year z amount of money, which is maybe less than y, still earning, but this shows declining of profit. Even if we still make profit, if we stop manufacturing these products, and start to manufacture other products, we will earn more than with current products..." And then they stop to make film, paper, chemistry. No matter if you buy current products, there are other products which will make more profit for that company.

And that is why digital is so dangerous. Not only because they are here and take over majority of market, consumer market especially. Digital imaging product manufacturers are so agresive in telling "the world" digital is the king, analog should dissapear. Not forget, digital make more easily control for manufacturers of who, how use theire products, which is good foundation for future marketing actions...

They are determine to destroy analog photography, not only they want to exist, but they want to destroy "us".

Roger Hicks · Jan 12, 2007

uraniumnitrate said:
Than I must be somebody isn't it?

So you're actually called xxxxxx, then?

Come on. This COULD be a hoax. It probably isn't, and there seems to be no reason why you should lie to us. But you can't blame people for seeking confirmation from another source.

Cheers,

R.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 12, 2007

uraniumnitrate said:
...And now is nothing left except Kodak films...

Nothing left? With the exception of Quickload Acros for the convenience when traveling, I've gone over to Ilford completely. Their products are (as Ron Mowery puts it) "first tier" and do everything one might need. The same applies to Ilford paper, where I'm extremely pleased with Galerie.

This decision was made both to acquire desired high quality materials in the immediate future and to support for the long term the one black and white manufacturer that, in my estimation, has the best chance of survival despite market contraction. I have no financial interest in Ilford or any photo manufacturers, distributors, dealers, etc. and engage in photography strictly as a hobby.

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 12, 2007

I'm inclined to believe that this is not a hoax, because believe "uraniumnitrate" to be a rebrander of Forte products who once hyped his own eBay auction here on APUG without mentioning that he was the seller. We closed down the thread.

Perhaps if Mr. Nitrate had been more straightforward all along by posting under his name or at least his company name, and perhaps becoming an APUG sponsor rather than trying to slip commercial announcements under the radar, no one would be doubting his credibility now.

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

haris said:
Not quite so.

I bought last year 200 rolls of film (35mm and 120), few boxes of paper and few liters of chemistry. This year will be simillar, maybe more, especially paper I finally going to FB and bigger sizes. And this or year next I plan to go LF, probably 20x25cm and contact printing. And I am hobby photographer with about 500EURO monthly income. I assume pro photographers or people who have more income buys much more...

But problem is also that companies acting not only by situation they are but also by assuming future. So, imagine situation in which management of company say "Last year we earned x amount of money, this year y amount which is less than x, but still we earned, we think we will make next year z amount of money, which is maybe less than y, still earning, but this shows declining of profit. Even if we still make profit, if we stop manufacturing these products, and start to manufacture other products, we will earn more than with current products..." And then they stop to make film, paper, chemistry. No matter if you buy current products, there are other products which will make more profit for that company.

And that is why digital is so dangerous. Not only because they are here and take over majority of market, consumer market especially. Digital imaging product manufacturers are so agresive in telling "the world" digital is the king, analog should dissapear. Not forget, digital make more easily control for manufacturers of who, how use theire products, which is good foundation for future marketing actions...

They are determine to destroy analog photography, not only they want to exist, but they want to destroy "us".

I agree and that's because the electhronic industry can't sell more stereo's and tv's.
I also think it's bad that film manufactureres didn't go out and tell people specially to young ones that when they are going to be middle aged or old they not going to have any family images left as now come dvd's with blue laser and they promise that you can play the old ones (red) of course but how long? And the new generation after that? And of course lather a new format and a new again than it's not gonna give you more than shadows!

I have recorded over a 35 mm motion picture I made over to a video so called brodcast standard it was a two inch video tape and than over a new type of half inch and than to VHS and now I cant see it as VHS is dissaperaring and I burned to CD the quality is so low that it's un-enjoyable!!

But my 35 mm stiil work and its the original but I cant play it any longer nowhere! So much about technics!
A 170 years from now if somebody lifting up my negative still be able tio do a copy of it with high quality!

JBrunner · Jan 12, 2007

If it is true, I will lament the demise of Polywarmtone. I have found nothing else like it. Ilford products are first rate, but try as I may, I have never been able to reproduce the polywarmtone look with Ilfords warmtone. (And I have tried)

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
So you're actually called xxxxxx, then?

Come on. This COULD be a hoax. It probably isn't, and there seems to be no reason why you should lie to us. But you can't blame people for seeking confirmation from another source.

Cheers,

R.

No but I don't find it intresting to rewill my name to you!

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
I'm inclined to believe that this is not a hoax, because believe "uraniumnitrate" to be a rebrander of Forte products who once hyped his own eBay auction here on APUG without mentioning that he was the seller. We closed down the thread.

Perhaps if Mr. Nitrate had been more straightforward all along by posting under his name or at least his company name, and perhaps becoming an APUG sponsor rather than trying to slip commercial announcements under the radar, no one would be doubting his credibility now.

Yes I did but I don't wanted to much publicity and I don't have a company I did sell ULF film on one other site and there is my name and everything! I just wanted to give a vink for those who where awake and you could have find me throught my listing!!

In the other hand I'm just helped out some friends who's got trouble to find ULF film because that connection I've got! I was'nt in it any for my living!!! I earn my money with something else! This you could have find out too if you where awake but you closed down the topic!

I'm not a rebrander and I never lie about it either It was there in the site that is manufactured for me as is by Forte for the European market! I did not repack or re labelled anything! I don't have a time for things like that! It was both side agreement me and Fortes!

I just didn't felt that I should go out with my name after that incident on my Tomiyama topic which some people used as argument to sell they own make or do commercial out of my topic for other brands! if I where intrested on other stuff I would have ask! All I wanted is to get some kind of info or talk to people who have the same camera!

Matt5791 · Jan 12, 2007

If this is true it is only to be expected if they are, as reported in this thread, still operating a huge factory.

This indistry will have to find a way to operate sucessfully on a smaller scale, or it will be in real danger of disappearing al together. (unless of course there is a halt in the decline of traditional photography or a resurgence)

There is a silver lining to this though - it will mean more market share to the likes of Ilford and Kentmere etc. with the likely effect of strengthening their position. Everyone knows one of the best things to happen to Ilford was the demise of Agfa and the cessation of monochrome paper manufacture by Kodak.

Nice to think that the UK strengthens its domination of monochrome material further....just joking - I love Polywarmtone, and some of my favourite portraits are printed on it.

haris · Jan 12, 2007

uraniumnitrate said:
But my 35 mm stiil work and its the original but I cant play it any longer nowhere! So much about technics!

There are secondhand 35mm projectors. I would look for old Eastern Europe models. One good thing with Eastern Europe products is they mostly use "ordinary" parts. For example, if Western products used special bulbs, it is likely that Eastern Europe product which have same function use ordinary houshold bulb which is still widely avalible. I am not saying projectors do the same, I am just talking about "phylosophical approach" of "behind iron curtain" manufacturers... So, spare parts and repairing of old Eastern Europe models would be probably easy to find/do. In Eastern Europe that is

Good luck

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

Matt5791 said:
If this is true it is only to be expected if they are, as reported in this thread, still operating a huge factory.

This indistry will have to find a way to operate sucessfully on a smaller scale, or it will be in real danger of disappearing al together. (unless of course there is a halt in the decline of traditional photography or a resurgence)

There is a silver lining to this though - it will mean more market share to the likes of Ilford and Kentmere etc. with the likely effect of strengthening their position. Everyone knows one of the best things to happen to Ilford was the demise of Agfa and the cessation of monochrome paper manufacture by Kodak.

Nice to think that the UK strengthens its domination of monochrome material further....just joking - I love Polywarmtone, and some of my favourite portraits are printed on it.

Ilford is not that good quality as you think it is! Believe me! But I do relized that in this side is the Union Jack matters nothing else
On the other things I totally agree with you but it's not that easy! This things are custom built and designed for a sorts of amount they had decided as the production should be at the beginning and to rebuild or get new mashines are costly which no investor likely to do when all know that the market going too shrink even more!

That's why Agfa walk out of this in the beginning. And now Forte! The next is Ilford when chinese begin to export cheap throught the relabelling firms!

johnnywalker · Jan 12, 2007

Where do Foma and Efke fit in the grand scheme? Are they in the same boat as Forte (big old high-capacity factories)?

JBrunner · Jan 12, 2007

Gee, I wish I had all the crystal balls that seem to be everywhere but my house

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

haris said:
There are secondhand 35mm projectors. I would look for old Eastern Europe models. One good thing with Eastern Europe products is they mostly use "ordinary" parts. For example, if Western products used special bulbs, it is likely that Eastern Europe product which have same function use ordinary houshold bulb which is still widely avalible. I am not saying projectors do the same, I am just talking about "phylosophical approach" of "behind iron curtain" manufacturers... So, spare parts and repairing of old Eastern Europe models would be probably easy to find/do. In Eastern Europe that is

Good luck

It's maybe so thanks for the info but to get there I got to know some people in every of those places! I'm living high up in the north the next step form here would be the North Pole! It's closer than Greenland! there is some here but they have find them in the junkyard (the old ones) Some of them are in museums but I know two movie theatre has those on display! maybe I should rub them! Well I've got only one movie 30 minits or so It's a kind of made in the surrealist's footstep!

Sal Santamaura · Jan 12, 2007

uraniumnitrate said:
Ilford is not that good quality as you think it is! Believe me!...

I believe nothing without convincing evidence. My experience shows it is first tier quality. What evidence can you offer to the contrary?

uraniumnitrate said:
...The next is Ilford when chinese begin to export cheap throught the relabelling firms!

Ilford seems to be doing well these days despite cheap competition from rebranded second and third tier manufacturers' products. The only way I think black and white products from China could negatively impact Ilford is if they were at the same quality level. While there may be exceptions, most Chinese products aren't noteworthy for their high quality. That might change in future decades -- I remember when the epithet "Japanese junk" was common -- but such transformations typically take a long time.

haris · Jan 12, 2007

johnnywalker said:
Where do Foma and Efke fit in the grand scheme? Are they in the same boat as Forte (big old high-capacity factories)?

I don't know for Foma, but EFKE is name of products made by small Croatian, city of Samobor, company called Fotokemika. It is old (relatively, from 1950es), and not that big. Then again, having in mind that EFKE was in fact based on old Adox, and now Fotoimpex and JandC with EFKE/Adox, I don't know anymore what Fotokemika really is . What is important, they are working

uraniumnitrate · Jan 12, 2007

johnnywalker said:
Where do Foma and Efke fit in the grand scheme? Are they in the same boat as Forte (big old high-capacity factories)?

No not Efke! They are small but worn out mashines and when those are finished than maybe one day there is no Efke! Foma is a repack they would proboly sell you Russian or chinese films with out notice!
They read this site but never step out and tell you the truth. And probobly never will!

Forte stop it's production

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