Forte quality control

aldevo · Jun 22, 2005

jandc,

You're bringing up an interesting point.

I have had two retailers inform me that their Kodak reps. told them that the real reason B&W paper was discontinued was because the new German paper base supplier could not manufacture the bases for Polycontrast IV and Polymax FB consistently to spec.

I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

skahde · Jun 23, 2005

"I have had two retailers inform me that their Kodak reps. told them"
... to blame someone else.

tim atherton · Jun 23, 2005

jandc said:
I hear Kodak screwed up their entire production run of Azo grade 2 a few months back due to unanticipated changes in their gelatin supply.

hardly unaticipated - Kodak closed their main plant that produced the stuff didn't (in Mass. or somehwere close I think)

jandc · Jun 23, 2005

tim said:
hardly unaticipated - Kodak closed their main plant that produced the stuff didn't (in Mass. or somehwere close I think)

You mean this plant?

http://www.eastmangel.com/index.html

SkipA · Jun 24, 2005

I bought some Polygrade V and PolyWarmtone about a 18 months ago and had trouble getting new prints of old negs that I'd previously printed on those papers to look the same as before. So I gave up and switched to a entirely different paper for those negs and gave them a completely different look (Agfa MCC).

But I hadn't heard about the aging issue with Forte papers, so perhaps I'll try the Forte again. How long does a box of Forte paper last in room temperature conditions? I haven't refridgerated it, it's just been in a box in a drawer in my darkroom, 70 to 85 degrees F all this time. Likely to still be good?

I'll know for sure tomorrow, as I now plan to try printing on it again.

andre laredo · Jun 24, 2005

I am a pro exibition printer in toronto and I have been using Forte paper
for many years,using the Polywarm and cold tone papers in sheet form
and rolls for murals.About 2 years ago I began to notice some strange inconsistences
with the papers.Speed variance of up to 2 stops between batches of the polywarm
paper,very aggravating when you are in the middle of an edition of prints and consistency is the point of making an edition.I had problem with the cold tone paper
one time about a year ago with strange fog marks on a batch of 11x14 paper.
after I exchanged the paper, I never saw the problem again.
It seem to me that Forte paper is the most difficult commercial paper to process,
because of it's sensitivity.Extra care must be used in the fixing,selenium toning and
washing stages.I have a number of clients who refuse to use anything other than
Forte paper,so this is an ongoing struggle.

shyguy · Jun 24, 2005

Well i must say that in comparing the forte papers against others, i always tend to prefer the tones in the forte.

I really hate having to deal with the inconsistencies, but i will because of the image quality. If you believe there is a paper out there with as nice tones i'd sure like to try it.

S.

tim atherton · Jun 24, 2005

jandc said:
You mean this plant?

http://www.eastmangel.com/index.html

just bouble checked (I came across it when all the stuff about kodak stoppign paper production, and only read it quickly) - they ahven't actually closed it yet - they had already cut the staff by 1/3 and have "possibly" slated it fo closure (citing digital...)

tim atherton · Jun 24, 2005

tim said:
just bouble checked (I came across it when all the stuff about kodak stoppign paper production, and only read it quickly) - they ahven't actually closed it yet - they had already cut the staff by 1/3 and have "possibly" slated it fo closure (citing digital...)

hmmm - bouble checked...

dancqu · Jun 25, 2005

They have not closed that plant. Perhaps they will use
that plant to produce coating materials for their ink jet
and other digital papers.
Does not Kodak and every other manufacturer of silver
gelatin papers also produce or market one form or
the other of digital print papers? Dan

aldevo · Jun 26, 2005

No, the plant will be closed.

Kodak also made the announcement that several inkjet papers will also be discontinued along with the traditional silver-based stuff.

dancqu · Jun 27, 2005

aldevo said:
No, the plant will be closed. Kodak also made the
announcement that several inkjet papers will also
be discontinued along with the traditional
silver-based stuff.

Likely an outdated facility. Boning up on gelatin
I see a big European producer has very good gelatine
for inkjet papers.

A Camera & Darkroom article by Steve Anchell describes
the making at home of POP and Silver Gelatin print
papers. Looks so simple I wonder there are not
more making it at home. Dan

Paul Howell · Jun 27, 2005

It seems simple until you try and make 500 sheets or 20X24.

dancqu · Jun 30, 2005

jandc said:
I can get you all the graded 5x7 paper you want. It's just a
matter of having it cut to that size. However, this is for
double weight.
Single weight is a problem because manufacturers don't
make it and having it made custom requires a lot of up front
money in a special production run which likely would not
be recouped.
If you want to order some in smaller sizes send me an email
a sales@jandcphoto.com.

Several members of this group have expressed an interest
in 5 x 7 paper. For myself only, a large amount of any one
grade and emulsion would be too much.

I'm working on the design of a compact, convenient to
use, committed, 8 x 10 to 5 x 7 cutter. Using that I'll
have a variety of papers available. Dan

aldevo · Jul 1, 2005

dancqu said:
Likely an outdated facility. Boning up on gelatin
I see a big European producer has very good gelatine
for inkjet papers.

A Camera & Darkroom article by Steve Anchell describes
the making at home of POP and Silver Gelatin print
papers. Looks so simple I wonder there are not
more making it at home. Dan

Not outdated at all, actually. Kodak refurbrished it in early 2002 and moved it's B&W paper production there a year later.

Ian Grant · Jul 14, 2005

Following on from Jon's comments - Polywarmtone and ageing.

I bought a lot of Polywarmtone paper which was of very fresh manufacture and on testing found it quite different to previous batches. Now about 3 months old I used some again last night to find it has aged and settled. It now matches & behaves like the older Polywarmtone paper I have in stock.

Ian

jandc said:
In the old days Forte made paper and then put the rolls in storage for several months to properly age. In the scramble to fend of bankruptcy and with the new production now proceeding they are producing the paper and cutting and shipping as fast as they can. The end result is that the paper coming out has not been aged like it used to be. The paper will stabilize in about 6 months and be much closer to the older paper in performance.

One difference that is real is that their paper supplier went out of business and they are now buying from a new source. So the base of the new paper is slightly different than the old paper. The emulsion is the same as before and has not been changed.

We have seen this with our Classic papers which are the equivalents of PV-G, Polywarmtone and Fortezzo and it is true of all the other suppliers getting their products from Forte. Once inventories build up again all of this should stabilize.

Forte quality control

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