Forte Polywarmtone yellowing

Gary Holliday · Feb 14, 2008

I've just finished a series of prints on Forte Polywarmtone FB in Ilford Warmtone developer.

After reviewing them, I've noticed that 3 of the prints have very strong yellowing on the image and borders.

As I tend to experiment a lot, I gave some of the prints 1.5 - 2 mins underdevelopment during the session to achieve a warmer look. The other prints were given 4 minutes.

All prints were soaked overnight, washed in running water, hypo cleared and washed again for 10- 15 mins in running water.

Is this yellowing normal with over exposing and under developing? Or has there been a problem with the fix or washing?

Thanks.

dancqu · Feb 15, 2008

Gary Holliday said:
Is this yellowing normal with over exposing and under
developing?
Or has there been a problem with the fix or washing?

Not the first but the second. After stop what
proceedures were used? Dan

Ian Grant · Feb 15, 2008

This kind of yellowing is incomplete fixing, you really need to use 2 bath fixing ensuring the silver-thiosulphate complexes are totally soluble and wash out.

Ian

ath · Feb 15, 2008

Forte polywarmtone needs fresh, strong (film strength) fixer.

panastasia · Feb 15, 2008

I agree with Ian and Andreas regarding fresh fixer.

Note: Forte PWT is one of my papers of choice, and it responds most beautifully when using developers that include Glycin. It gets rid of the greenish cast.

Regards,
Paul

Gary Holliday · Feb 15, 2008

I don't always two bath fix. On this occassion I used one bath of fresh Ilford Rapid Fix 1+9. With lots of agitation for about 4 mins or so.

ann · Feb 15, 2008

i would suggest that the ratio of fixer is too weak. switch to 1:3

Ian Grant · Feb 15, 2008

It's not so much the strength of the fixer it's more the silver content, so as you used a one bath fixer the silver content builds up, as a consequence the residual silver-thiosulphate complexes aren't fully soluble in water.

Ian

ann · Feb 15, 2008

i would agree that it is the silver content; and frankly i count prints when i print for archival purposes (meaning surface area).

with test prints i might use 1:9, but not for any serious work.

ath · Feb 15, 2008

Ian, it's not only silver content with polywarmtone. I had this happen with two bath fixing and rather old, but low silver content second bath. It seems to be more complex.

Gary Holliday · Feb 15, 2008

Well this is news to me, I didn't realise that PWT was so fussy. This was a first run of prints so not many went through the fix.

ann · Feb 15, 2008

this can occur with any paper, not just the polywarmtone.

Confusion Circle · Feb 15, 2008

When were the Forte papers discontinued?

Ian Grant · Feb 15, 2008

Early last year (2007). No-one wanted to buy them.

Ian

Confusion Circle · Feb 15, 2008

I heard it was a great paper. There is a camera store that has a few 11x14 50 sheet packs left...I was wondering if I should try it out.

Ian Grant · Feb 15, 2008

This seems to happen more with Warm-tone papers than other.

ath said:
Ian, it's not only silver content with polywarmtone. I had this happen with two bath fixing and rather old, but low silver content second bath. It seems to be more complex.

I'd never really thought about it but it never happened at all when I first started in photography using Bromesko or Kodak Bromide paper, fixing in Sodium Thiosulphate fixers. Then using Ilford Galerie, Multigrade never a problem.

As soon as I began using Record Rapid (Portriga) and by then only Ammonium Thiosulphateb fixers, 1985/6 fixing became more of an issue, that continued with Multi-Contrast Classic. (It's never an issue with RC papers). Forte Polywarmtone seems more susceptible, it's a thicker paper base.

Some people fix in Ammonium Thiosulphate fixers and then use a plain Sodium Thiosulphate bath prior to washing, that seems to make a lot of sense.

Ian

ath · Feb 16, 2008

I had it happen with polywarmtone RC. While I agree, that proper fixing is not trivial with all papers, polywamtone seems to be extra picky.

Whatadame · Feb 16, 2008

Confusion Circle said:
I heard it was a great paper. There is a camera store that has a few 11x14 50 sheet packs left...I was wondering if I should try it out.

What shop? I'd be very interested in purchasing it.

Confusion Circle · Feb 16, 2008

Ah, sorry, I bought the lot, and all their AGFA papers as well.

Whatadame · Feb 16, 2008

Confusion Circle said:
Ah, sorry, I bought the lot, and all their AGFA papers as well.

If you decide that it isn't your cup of tea, let me know. I'll take it off your hands.
Thanks.

panastasia · Feb 16, 2008

Whatadame said:
What shop? I'd be very interested in purchasing it.

Try B&H, they to have some in stock, look for "Polygrade Warm Plus - same stuff I believe - if you click on "more info", Polywarmtone is described as the product, or as the old version of the same . I'm not absolutely sure, so check it out and judge for yourself.

dancqu · Feb 16, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Some people fix in Ammonium Thiosulphate fixers and
then use a plain Sodium Thiosulphate bath prior to
washing, that seems to make a lot of sense. Ian

May make a lot of sense but not so much more than
other methods as posts this thread will verify. Ansel
did use a 'Plain fixer" made alkaline with sodium
sulfite prior to toning with KRST in a solution
of Kodak HCA.

Of course there is always the question of what is the
sensible thing to do and what are the priorities.
Sensible being an observance of the priorities.

I'd say the usual top priority is convenience.
Repeatedly pouring fixer in and out of a bottle and
tracking the square inches processed is convenient
for some. It ignores though the actual condition of the
used fixer. The condition of the fixer should be the top
priority. Counting square inches is a one-size fits all
papers approach which can lead to wide margins
for error and good chemistry down the drain.

With the condition of the fixer as the top priority
it's proof of doing well is the print it self. My method
establishes a chemistry minimum for each paper. What
ever the dilution happens to be using a standardized
processing technique I'm assured of a thoroughly
fixed print with little margin of chemistry
going down the drain. Dan

Forte Polywarmtone yellowing

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