For UK Members - Possible Bad News for Jessops

Last time I was in the Norwich LCE a couple of years ago they didn't stock analogue photography materials. However I have noticed some serious medium format gear on their used list recently so I don't know what the current situation is.

Tom.

Tom Kershaw said:

Last time I was in the Norwich LCE a couple of years ago they didn't stock analogue photography materials. However I have noticed some serious medium format gear on their used list recently so I don't know what the current situation is.

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Pretty much all digital on Timber Hill now apart from a couple of s/h Mamiya RZ kits in the window. If you want chemicals & paper, they will send you to WarehouseExpress or Jessops. A limited range of film stocked, and some of the staff are trad users.

For a company that appears to get quite a bashing, Jessops (Norwich) isn't too bad - OK, the staff know bugger all about film^Wphotography, but they do stock a reasonable selection of paper & film (including 5x4).

Tom, Ilford products are expensive, within reason they always have been and I believe always will be.

The reason is simple, it is a very well manufactured product, their supply lines are very well run, the product range is, in this day and age, very good, this all costs.

The Australian distributor of Ilford products is a family business that has a record of distributing and/or importing, excellent photographic lines, this does cost.

That said, they have always appeared to be have an extremely expensive pricing structure. Effectively the Australian market is closed and therefore captive to them.

NZ is basically in the same, if not identical situation as it is the same company that distributes there IIRC.

The really galling situation is that shortly after Ilford collapsed, then eventually it became Harmon, the current distributor was chosen, fine. However, about six months after the company was importing Ilford B&W film and paper lines, there was absolutely no reference on their website about this. About two years later, you still could not find any reference to any Ilford B&W film or paper on their website.

Now to current pricing, remember, in this country, unless someone is going under or you really purchase shed loads of stuff, nobody gets a discount here.

Kodak Supra Endura 8x10 colour paper, 100 sheets $111.98

Ilford MG IV RC Deluxe 8x10 B&W paper, 100 sheets $118.66

Ilford MG FB 1K DW 8x10 B&W paper, 100 sheets $158.51

Tetenal TT Baryt Vario DW 8x10 B&W paper $116.60

All prices in Australian Dollars.

Film is slightly better, Tri X is $7.15 a roll of 120, this is the cheapest of the big three companies offerings, Fuji Neopan is midway and Ilford HP5+ is the dearest at $8.48 a roll.

I purchased 5 rolls of 120 Tri X today for a job I require it for. I will order my next lot of Ilford roll film from the USA, as per usual.

My next order of Ilford sheet film will be from the USA as well, the landed price delivered to my door, is close to 49% cheaper for the same product I purchase here.

Mick.

Paul,

Last time I was in Jessops the sales assistant told me film was going away... (as I purchased a pro-pack of T-Max 400)!

Tom.

Mick,

The Kodak Supra Endura pack you mentioned is about 32 AUD ex VAT here.

Tom.

Tom Kershaw said:

Last time I was in Jessops the sales assistant told me film was going away... (as I purchased a pro-pack of T-Max 400)!

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The last time I was in Jessops in Aberdeen looking for 5x4 film, I was told by a rather unkempt yoof that film was "dying" and that i'd be quicker and cheaper getting it from the Interweb!

It's hardly surprising that they're struggling when their staff have that sort of attitude and approach to customers.

Jessops used to be one of the few places where you could genuinely talk about photography to knowledgeable people and purchase good quality used kit that was usually beyond the reach of young aspiring film wasters.

Mike

Fond memories of Jessops of past. Nowadays if the teenager behind the counter doesn't try to sell me a DSLR kit when I want some rapid fixer I think I've had a fairly 'good' Jessops experience.

My local hides the film behind the counter and packs the floor with 'digital' camera bags and batteries.

The problem with Jessops is that it is run by accountants not people with vision. They cynically borrowed huge amounts of money to buy up other local traders in order to bolster the company profile ready for floating on the stock market.... did they manage the float - not sure - who cares? Now the management, instead of becoming overnight millionaires have run the whole show into the ground. Too many businesses are now run this way: quick buck and sell out. All sounds familiar huh? I feel vaguely sorry for the staff who obviously have no motivation from the management. I don't feel sorry for the senior management who are a great example of how NOT to run a business.

tim_walls said:

What is Warehouse Express's strategy exactly? "Lie about stock, sit on funds for as long as possible while ignoring the phone, and hope the customer eventually gives up?"


As role-models go, I struggle to imagine a worse one.

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I think you mis understand me. I don't know how Warehouse Express execute their strategy. The point I was making was that they operate with a different concept and with a different primary route to market - an online focus coupled with limited retail sq-footage which acts as a sort of "Mecca" - as opposed to Jessops who continue to try and justify 211 shops. Maybe Warehouse do have lousy customer service, but that's another issue.

Tom Kershaw said:

Matt,
If Jessops have 211 stores and Warehouse Express have one showroom, following Warehouse Express's model would involve a dramatic contraction of Jessops current position as a prominent high street retailer. Although I've only visited Warehouse Express once for a camera bag, the service was good, not 'oh no, a customer'...

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I think they might be forced to close most of those stores (they already closed 21 in February) - many companies have done this before - one example would be Laura Ashley who closed all of their stores outside of the UK in around 2003, and they had quite a few,(except a couple of flagships in places like New York) and a lot within the UK. What we see with Jessops might be pretty dramatic. The bank is involved and there is a massive debt - if the shops are not making money then they will go.

Just re-reading the link from the OP, Id overlooked how bad it really is:

Jessops warned investors that its shares could soon be worthless as the camera retailer looked to secure its survival through a debt restructuring plan.

The company, which has 211 stores in the UK and Ireland, said that it was in talks with HSBC to restructure a £60m ($96m) debt facility, as sales continued to decline.

This is really serious and probably terminal. The first paragraph is code for "administration". Its very sad.

Matt

I hate to see anyone lose their job - even if it's as a result of bad luck, general economic downturn and/or bad management strategy (or all three).

When I started taking photography seriously, Jessops was one of the best and only places to get hold of decent kit where I lived (Stockport, Cheshire) at a reasonable price. When I started work (1979) in Manchester, I swapped allegiances to 'Tecno' who were as competitive as Jessops but staffed by true experts and photo enthusiasts. Then Jessops bought them.

Jessops' demise, in my experience, is traceable back to the early 1980's when they started to treat photographic equipment as if it were a commodity like baked beans. Pile it high, sell it cheap, don't bother too much about customer service and keep the costs down by employing inexperienced Saturday staff.

There was the odd 'oasis' in the desert of mediocrity they created. The shops I visited in Leicester and London were well run and well stocked. However, with the advent of digital photography - and the explosion of interest and demand that created - Jessops dumbed-down yet further. I actually blame part of the demise in film sales to the likes of Jessops as they did seemingly stuff-all to support it. Mind you, I suppose it would have been a hell of a tide to swim against.

Here we are in 2009 and Jessops looks like going the way of Woolworths but with the added complication that if they do disappear, there'll be even fewer outlets for what's left of the anlogue film, chemicals and paper industry......

Paul Jenkin said:

Here we are in 2009 and Jessops looks like going the way of Woolworths but with the added complication that if they do disappear, there'll be even fewer outlets for what's left of the anlogue film, chemicals and paper industry......

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Might be the general gloom and MP's expenses that's affecting me but my first thought on reading this bit of the quote was to add: "and getting us closer to the economics of the distress purchase situation where demand is small but inelastic and the sky's the limit in terms of prices. "

pentaxuser

OK, local branch is going downhill. Went in to pick up a box of 5x4 and found they are laying off the experienced and knowledgable staff and keeping the oiks on (all be it at reduced rates).

If this is the attitude of the remaining Jessops staff:

i only know about digital, its an old fashioned camera....it takes film....p**s off, a couple of years at night school and a Degree shows you that i know probably a lot more about photography than they do

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(full thread here)

I guess I'll be stocking up on "stuff" while I still get discount and then return to pick over the remains at the liquidation sales.

Analogue service seems to vary by shop - if the Manager is interested them they will stock it.

I have stopped darkening the door of my local Jessops as the last 3 times I have asked for stuff (Film, Chemicals & Photo Trays) I have been advised to buy it off the Internet - as they don't do that sort of stuff !

Any shop you turns away Customers who go in with the intention of buying and turns them away is doomed.

Shops only survive by selling product that Customers want to buy.

Shops don't survive when they try to dictate to Customers what they want to sell - the Customers just take their money else where.

The sad thing for me is we used to have two quite nice independent photographic shops, but Jessops moved in, drove them out of business and then dropped their standard of service

I am amazed with the credit crunch Jessops have lasted this long.

Martin

Martin Aislabie said:

I have stopped darkening the door of my local Jessops as the last 3 times I have asked for stuff (Film, Chemicals & Photo Trays) I have been advised to buy it off the Internet - as they don't do that sort of stuff !

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The problem with this advice for them as a store is that if you do buy on-line, it is unlikely to be with Jessops.

In my case I go with Silverprint.



Steve.

I liked shopping in Jessops when they did their A3 paper price list that had practically everything they stocked in the smallest type possible- sold a few loupes I bet

Over the last couple of years all they seem interested in is selling digi cams, OK there is a little film but their staff are pretty ignorant of analogue materials (which I think is to be expected). I still go there for my fixer and E-6 process so I'll miss them for that.

Mark Antony said:

still go there for my fixer and E-6 process so I'll miss them for that.

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With their order online and pick up in store system?

Tom

Well Tom every time I've stopped by they have had plenty of fixer, I drop off any E-6 (since reflections move from Norwich) and pick up when I get round to them normally about 2-3 weeks.

Steve Smith said:

The problem with this advice for them as a store is that if you do buy on-line, it is unlikely to be with Jessops.

In my case I go with Silverprint.



Steve.

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I was amazed at their cannot be bothered attitude Steve

It also becomes a self fulfilling prophecy - they don't sell it so they don't stock it and they don't stock it because they don't sell it :rolleyes:

The shop at Banbury was more analogue friendly but why would I choose to get in the car and drive 20 miles just to go to another Jessops.

I am lucky, NOVA are in Warwick, which is only 8 miles so I generally go to them – the difference is amazing – friendly, well stocked, happy to see you and glad of your custom.

Martin

In recent years several hundred photographic retailers have ceased trading, many of them better run and with more knowledgable staff than Jessops, two of whom I have worked for in the past, I can't see why they should be immune from market forces, as the previus poster said they seem to subscribe to the "Yes we have no bananas" school of marketing.

Mark Antony said:

there is a little film but their staff are pretty ignorant of analogue materials (which I think is to be expected).

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The degree of this ignorance was brought home to me on Saturday. I took in a roll of XP2 and had to explain 3 times to the staff, with growing emphasis, that it was to be developed in COLOUR chemicals, aka C-41. If I hadn't been so persistent they would have sent it off to the b&w lab. I couldn't believe just how difficult it was to get the message through, I thought I had explained myself very clearly at the outset. Even the manager, who had been at Camera Exchange (regional photo chain) before it got bought out, didn't really know what he was looking at. I don't expect them to mono maniacs, but for goodness sakes XP2 has been around for long enough now!

Experiences like this prove that they are not a photographic retailer, merely a variation on the Dixons/Currys/Argos/et al theme of box-shifters with poorly trained, disinterested staff.

So why should anyone - film, digital or otherwise - travel to and spend money (invariably quite a bit more than online) there?

Someone else cited Laura Ashley. I worked there through the dark days in the 90s. Once or twice the company was apparently hours from foreclosure by the bank. What saved them, apart from cost-cutting, restructuring and all that malarky (e.g. reducing the number of shops & offices abroad, as they incur a disproportionate overhead). Thankfully, making expensive furniture which was popular meant we could survive when the clothing remained unprofitable. More out-of-town Home Furnishings stores and fewer expensive town centre garment shops meant we capitalised on the "posh up your home" market. Crucially, the company exploited its brand identity, which was thankfully still strong. Jessops probably don't have that option.

I went into Jessops Oxford St, supposed to be one of their high profile shops, last Saturday.... oh my...... It looks more like a car show room, bright lighting display cases against the walls. How many of you remember downstairs... all the darkroom used to be down there as well as studio stuff. Well don’t bother now, printing from digital is now down there as well as some sort of training room (empty). As for dark room, one display rack a couple of feet across. The average darkroom would have a better stock, very disappointing. Would I go in again? Doubtful, Calumet have better film and darkroom choice now.

David

David_A said:

I went into Jessops Oxford St, supposed to be one of their high profile shops, last Saturday.... oh my...... It looks more like a car show room, bright lighting display cases against the walls. How many of you remember downstairs... all the darkroom used to be down there as well as studio stuff. Well don’t bother now, printing from digital is now down there as well as some sort of training room (empty). As for dark room, one display rack a couple of feet across. The average darkroom would have a better stock, very disappointing. Would I go in again? Doubtful, Calumet have better film and darkroom choice now.

David

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Sad...I used to buy my Agfa MCC downstairs.

The slightly sad thing for me is that many of the camera shops I used to frequent were bought out by Jessops. Frequently they then 'rationlised' - closing down one or more shops in a town. If they go down the plug hole many towns and cities, which once supported three or four or more camera shops will be left with none. Not that Jessops are of much use to me now, mind.

A few weeks ago I was working in Northern Ireland. I visited a small town North West of Belfast - can't remember which one. Ballymena, possibly? I had a 35mm camera with me and some time to kill but few frames left. I found a Jessops - and they had not a single B/W film. OK, it was only a small town, but nearby I noticed a Boots chemist. They had HP5+, XP2, Some kodak B/W chromagenic films and a fair range of colour films. It was all nice and fresh too with 'use by' dates well into the future. When I went to pay for two roll of HP5+ the young girl on the counter said 'You do realise that isn't a C-41 film, we can't process it here on site'. I did realise, of course, but nice to know she knew that

So... there obviously was a demand for film, it was selling, it's just that Boots was providing the service.
Moral: Look for a Boots next time you run out of film....

That's true for many towns in the UK and unfortunately highlights the inherent problems Jessops are facing, they've forgotten to cater properly for film users.

Ian

I've also noticed Boot's commitment. Often a good range available - not the cheapest, but then it is a convenience.

Matt