For Men Only

David Lyga · Jan 4, 2013

Each camera show I have ever attended had about 95% of its attendees and dealers to be of the male sex.

Each camera store I have ever visited was run almost exclusively by males.

95% of the people on both apug.org and photo.net are males.

Why? Are we either missing something or are we somehow interested in an exclusively male endeavor, the subliminal attributes of which are not easily understandable or readily defined? -- David Lyga

summicron1 · Jan 4, 2013

women are smart.

duh.

they do have one weakness -- they tolerate us.

more seriously, i suspect you need to ask a sociologist, but it is probably related to the same cause of all the customers at Sears tool department being men.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 4, 2013

Most female photographers I know are not gear-heads, and don't worry about different films, cameras, and lenses and such. Most of them are almost entirely focused on the pictures themselves, and simply just DO.
I admire that a lot and wish I could dial back my own approach to that level of 'matter of fact' photography.

David Lyga · Jan 4, 2013

summicron1: I know that cameras are 'tools'. Thus, the men, whether at Sears or at camera shows. But it is also art. And, yes, Thomas, women do not like gadgets as much as we men do. In fact, it's amazing how they distance themselves from anything concerned with 'hands on' and 'tactile'. Let's face it: don't we love to 'fire' the shutter without film?

Answering the thread's inferred question which I posed is rather easy to do because it is so natural for us men. However, I am glad that I asked it because, although 'known' to us, it is rarely questioned or even thought about. Looked upon entirely ojectively, it is a very relevant question and points to fundamental differences between overall outlooks and value determinants between men and women. - David Lyga

Bob Carnie · Jan 4, 2013

I find that at least 40% of the people I work with are women, I think the gear head thing is part of the reason some do not see this.

cliveh · Jan 4, 2013

Thomas is correct, as they are not into gear as much as men. When I started teaching photography, my classes were predominately male. For about the last 14 years they have been predominately female. I have also noticed that many are very artistic and gifted in producing photographic imagery and development of ideas. I am not suggesting a female/male gender bias, but would say they are about equal.

Vaughn · Jan 4, 2013

FWIW...There are as many, if not more, females in our university darkroom photo classes than males.

But I do not think it is because of my good looks and magnetic personality.

Old joke:

Good News: Coeds really dig older professors.

Bad News: They think 25 years old is 'older'.

David Lyga · Jan 4, 2013

Very interesting, Vaughn. Show them this post and pose the question to them. You just might get a rather enlightening answer. Let them know that they, specifically that class, is somewhat of an anomaly.

Is it the 'trendiness' or is it the immersion into the physical? - David Lyga

Vaughn · Jan 4, 2013

Our local (and only) photo store is staffed 50/50, as was the one before that closed down.

I don't think our female to male participation in photo classes in an anomily. Even our photo teaching staff has been 50/50 for over 35 years.

PS -- I'll have a show of my carbon prints and platinum prints at the University of the Arts, Feb 15 to March 15, if you are in the area. Don't know if I will be able to be there for the opening...being on the left coast and all.

Vaughn

David Lyga · Jan 4, 2013

Again, I wonder why?

Apparently, on the East Coast this is not the case. Kentucky and Colorado just might have different mindsets. - David Lyga

Katie · Jan 4, 2013

Most women I know (myself included) are tactile in nature who like to create and work with their hands.

While not quite a gear head, I'm certainly OCD when it comes to my art and require learning all I can about all areas. I also have a mild shopping problem...

cliveh · Jan 4, 2013

David Lyga said:
Again, I wonder why?

Apparently, on the East Coast this is not the case. Kentucky and Colorado just might have different mindsets. - David Lyga

What evidence do you have to back this up? I would say the posts so far speak on a global basis.

Jim17x · Jan 4, 2013

There is a photo store by me that has been there for over 60 years on the southside of Chicago and is run by 2 women..

Sirius Glass · Jan 4, 2013

summicron1 said:
women are smart.

duh.

they do have one weakness -- they tolerate us.

more seriously, i suspect you need to ask a sociologist, but it is probably related to the same cause of all the customers at Sears tool department being men.

No, they just think that they are smarter. However women who enjoy photography are more into composition than the hardware.

David Lyga · Jan 4, 2013

I have lived in the NorthEast (CT, NYC, BOSTON, PHiLA) for all my life. I have been going to camera shows since the early 80s. I have been going to camera stores since 1964. This is what I have experienced in that time. Interesting (and happily enlightening) to find differently. Smarter or not smarter than us? I think that women have an equal mental capacity but, at least culturally and maybe genetically, they do think differently for the most part. This can be both good and bad but, essentially, 'good' in that there is a social need to round things out in life. I do not want a world run exclusively by either men or women.

But, again, have I been blind, willfully biased, unknowingly 'ingoring' women? I think not. That is my answer to 'how do I back this up', cliveh. - David Lyga

cliveh · Jan 4, 2013

Greg Davis said:
It was the same when I taught in Miami, FL, as well. I also attend the regional and national conferences for SPE, the Society for Photographic Education. All of these have a 3 to 1 ratio in my experience.

3 to 1 ratio of what?

cliveh · Jan 4, 2013

David Lyga said:
I have lived in the NorthEast (CT, NYC, BOSTON, PHiLA) for all my life. I have been going to camera shows since the early 80s. I have been going to camera stores since 1964. This is what I have experienced in that time. Interesting (and happily enlightening) to find differently.

Have I been blind, willfully biased, unknowingly 'ingoring' women? I think not. That is my answer to 'how do I back this up', cliveh. - David Lyga

No, you are not blind, but we are talking about now, not then.

David Lyga · Jan 4, 2013

Then, as now. I attend the Fort Washington, PA camera show three times a year and it is the SAME. I do not choose it to be that way but that is what it is.

And not only at the shows. Le'ts face it: on this board and on photo.net it is the same thing. Sure there are women but I'll bet there are more than ten men for every female on these boards. - David Lyga

Ian David · Jan 4, 2013

The responses above all point in the same direction...

Camera stores, camera shows, and even forums like APUG are primarily about camera gear and the technical aspects of photography --> they attract an audience that is majority male. This then reinforces itself - I imagine a number of women drop by APUG and then leave again when they see the almost exclusively male population here.

Photography/darkroom classes with an emphasis on art and creation (rather than just gear and technique) tend to balance things up by attracting the women back again.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 4, 2013

My experience as a student at Indiana University in the late 1990s was that most of the photo students were women, but almost none of them had any real artistic depth or professional ambition. It was something fun that their parents or husbands were paying for. Only one of them is still doing photography today. She is a very talented woman who has worked her butt off while dealing with poverty and serious health issues. The rest? most have become 'stay at home moms', or they're working retail jobs.

There were a number of women working in other art media, like painting, sculpture, and ceramics, when I was in school. They seemed to have a much deeper commitment to their art, and more drive, than the female photo students. I've kept in touch with many of my classmates, and I'd say maybe 70% of the female non-photo art students are still creating art, and many of them are doing it as fulltime professionals.

I have no idea why it is that painting, ceramics, and sculpture attracted more creative and ambitious women, while photography did not.

Kevin Kehler · Jan 4, 2013

I also think there is a self-fulfilling action occurring, where manufacturers are aware the majority of their customers are male and then target advertisements, brochures, products, etc. toward men - this then leads to the implication that these products are for men and alienates women who might be interested, as it is seen as a "guy-thing". Thus, if all dslr's advertisements show men operating them and women operating smaller P&S's, the implication is that men should use dslr's and women should use P&S's. I remember trying to sell a dslr camera to a woman with delicate hands and should could not hold it and push the buttons - exact opposite to my large hands, I physically cannot operate a lot of P&S's because my fingers are too large to push only one button at a time. Look at any camera brochure, either men are using the dslr's or if a woman is, she is using a consumer model and is shooting either children or flowers while the men are using the pro models and are shooting sports or portraits.

This is most noticeable in children's toys, where who is seen playing with the toy influences other children into believing that's who should be playing with it. However, many studies have shown that if you show children the same made-up job and men are doing it, more children believe women can't do it than if you show a woman doing it, they still believe men could do it but shouldn't. I actually see a lot of Foucault's power narrative at play in photography, both who does it and how they do it.

MSchuler · Jan 4, 2013

I'd agree. It seems as though more than half of the photographers/opening attendees at Photo Center NW (PCNW) in Seattle are female, but the majority of people jawing with sales staff at Glazers are men.

Helinophoto · Jan 4, 2013

Because women are a weird breed, that's why.

....what?

But in all seriousness, I think the reason why there are generally fewer women doing photography on a "hard core" basis, is that; While it is a typically creative and artistic profession, you need to master a certain amount of logic and technique.

Photography can be very technical, especially when you get past the "pretty flowers and dogs" stage, when you start mixing in ligh theory, chemical theory, zone system and (dare I say) technical gadgets, women are put off.

It's not that they are less intelligent, it's just that IMO, they want to focus on the art aspect, that may also be why pottery, painting and drawing, and sculpturing, is more popular as art directions.

But, they are still pretty weird though.....

blansky · Jan 4, 2013

In my corner of the photography world, studio /environmental portrait/wedding photography, women are steadily gaining ground in the percentage of professional photographers.

Back in the 70s, almost ALL photographers were men with women working in retouching and running the studio. Through the years that gradually changed, but with the advent of automatic cameras and digital the number of women has skyrocketed. Today at a professional photography convention, I'd say that 30-40 percent may be women.

I agree that the gear head aspect was a determining factor in the past, and now with digital it's more of an artistic process, than the physical one that darkroom work entailed. The entire process with digital seems very suited to a woman's sensibilities and interests, and they can cut to the chase in getting to the results they envision.

I'm not saying they can't in an analog/darkroom context, but that it didn't really suit them. They know what they want and playing with tools is not their main interest but instead a means to an end.

I will bet that in my field that in 20 years the majority off professionals will be female, working the family/kid and maybe the wedding corner of the market.

whowantstoast · Jan 4, 2013

Both of our local photo stores are staffed by an equal number of men and women, and partially owned by women. I also meet a lot of photographers in the field, and I would give women the edge there. On other photo sites my contacts are about 50/50, with the women being far more productive. I don't think they're less into gear, I think they may be less into talking about it. Honestly, I think we tend to assume that we dominate photography and we act like it, and so the places we congregate, and the way we talk about it, can be off-putting to women. I think what I'm saying is that this question is more about us than them.

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