For BW digital: Just use PS/Lightroom or also Nik Silver Efex Pro?

planetrobert

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Hi,

So I have Lightroom and Photoshop, but I'm wondering, to get the maximum BW potential out of my digital raw files, should I invest in the BW software plugin Silver Efex Pro 2?
 

pschwart

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You can buy add-on software for just about any function -- color correction, b&w conversion, sharpening, noise reduction, masking, ... Depending on your skill level, the same results can often be achieved in Photoshop. Nik offers 15-day trials so you can decide for yourself.
 

mrtoml

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Also check out Alien Skin Exposure 4 (for LR or PS) also has a trial.
 

ann

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As Philip suggest it will depend on your skill level with PS. Mine is pretty much no existence, so I find plug ins very helpful.

Silver Efex Pro is terrific, reminds me of the darkroom and allows a lot of tweaking options, not just presets.

Topaz labs also has a great Black and White effects program. I use both, depending on my mood

Nice thing about Topaz , their updates are free. Nik may be more powerful. Both provide free trials.
 
OP
OP

planetrobert

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Interesting, so if you are a master PS user you can achieve the same results as what you get from additional software? That's very interesting.
 

Robert Brummitt

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I use Silver efex and enjoy it a lot. Take their live web tutorials. Their free. I did before I bought. The only thing I feel is that it's a bit ass backwards. You process the files and near the end it lets you choose a film type you like ie Kodak t-max or Ilford Delta 100. That should be in the top of the order.
Otherwise, it's fine bit of software.
 

mrtoml

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planetrobert said:
Interesting, so if you are a master PS user you can achieve the same results as what you get from additional software? That's very interesting.
Click to expand...

I like lith prints and Alien Skin Exposure has a good set of lith presets to get me started. I could do it in PS, but it would take 10 times longer (plus ASE is also a plug in for Lightroom so I never need to get to the PS stage).
 

RalphLambrecht

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I suggrest to try Topaz.It gave me the best results in just a few clicks, but you can do the samwe in PSalone too.:munch:
 

ann

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Topaz is terrific and they have a special for the next few days on their b&w product.

One thing that is different than silver flex, one can use a brush for dodging, burning etc. while Silver Efex uses control points. DIfferent strokes for different folks.

Here is the discount code for that product

bwland50 it is valid until the 17th. However, just sign up for one of their webinars as they always offer a discount.
 

RalphLambrecht

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planetrobert said:
Interesting, so if you are a master PS user you can achieve the same results as what you get from additional software? That's very interesting.
Click to expand...

I'm no PSmaster by any stretch of the imagination, but using the B&Wdarkroom logic,I can make B&Wimages every bit as good as plug ins dowhile rivaling darkroom work.
 

Richard Boutwell

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I recently made the analogy that Photoshop is sort of like a fully outfitted woodshop or garage, with specialized tools to do just about anything you can imagine, and that might be overwhelming to most people. However, even though it has more than most people need, with a little of knowledge of a few basic tools within photoshop you can do everything you need without being constrained by someone else's presets or plugins.

I have been doing digital black and white for several years now, mostly with drum scans from 2 1/4 and large format negatives but now more and more direct with digital capture.

Being a bit of a control freak I tend to stay away from things like silver efex pro which give you presets with only slight ability to control the contrast, sharpness, or shape of the curves adjustments. It makes it easy to convert and colorize and give you false boarders, but it also locks you into those adjustments to a good degree.

Lightroom is a good tool for initial "development" of the raw files as well as black and white conversion. Although in photoshop you are able to stack multiple B+W conversion adjustment layers and masks to convert select areas/colors—like using one layer as an orage filter to darken the sky and another as a green filter to lighten foliage.

The main benefit I've found is that photoshop gives you the ability to finely control local contrast through multiple adjustment layers when used like "burning and dodging" masks, combined with the ability of changing the blending mode of those adjustments. When used with a pen tablet interface, you can begin to gradually build contrast working intuitively like you would as if you were shading with a pencil (even if you are like me and have next to no natural sketching ability).
 

ann

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Topaz labs Black and white effects allow more control with bruning and dodging as one can use a brush rather than control point.


Richard makes some good points about PS, but I am not a frequent user and find it mind bending, but I never just use a Preset "as is", always do tweaking.
 

Doyle Thomas

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planetrobert said:
Interesting, so if you are a master PS user you can achieve the same results as what you get from additional software? That's very interesting.
Click to expand...

That is mostly true but not completely. Some plugins have tools not available otherwise. The Nik collection is an example and so is OnOne's Perfect Resize which converts the image to a vector file to do the resizing and then rastorizes back. It is much better than the tools in Photoshop. Topaz Mask provides masking tools to make a selection that are not contained in PS. Some other plugins, while the effects can be done in PS, improve productivity.
 

RalphLambrecht

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planetrobert said:
Hi,

So I have Lightroom and Photoshop, but I'm wondering, to get the maximum BW potential out of my digital raw files, should I invest in the BW software plugin Silver Efex Pro 2?
Click to expand...

I prefer to use as little software as posible and experience level is just a matter of practise. the Calvin Hollywood tutorials taught me everything I need to work in PSand use the same techniques as I did in the dark room; just miss the smell of fixer.
 

OzJohn

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I can agree with you as far as Perfect Resize is concerned. It is based on an earlier program called Genuine Fractals and is/was a rare example of someone thinking of a better way to do something in digital imaging. Sorry but Nik didn't impress me a lot but then again it was way overpriced when I tried it - that story is a bit different now.

I've not used Topaz Mask but I'm yet to see a third party masking tool (and I've tried many) that is any more efficient than those in PS. Masking is one of the most difficult tasks to do well depending upon the complexity of the image because at times you need to select at a resolution of just a few pixels. Nearly all selection tools depend upon identifying colour and contrast differences and in the end there is only so far software can go and a human has to make the final corrections in a really good mask. Many times the software leaves much more for the human to do than it does itself. I'm also yet to see a vendor for these plug-ins use a really tough example in their video sales pitch - something like a girl with wispy bleached hair against a pure white background. OzJohn
 

ann

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OZ check out a webinar on ReMask from Topaz it does some mind bending things.

Yes, experts using PS can do amazing things quickly,but for someone who doesn't use the program every day, let along once a month it is not an easy program .
 

Alan Klein

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analoguey

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