Fomatone MG

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

I can't find a whole lot on this paper, some but not tons. It would appear not many use it, but I've also read that its pretty good, the tone responds well to both developers and toners, its a slow ClBr paper that liths well...words that make one start to think wistfully of Polywarmtone. I just received my first package of it so I can find out for myself, but I'm curious why if it has these qualities it isn't talked about more

Richard Jepsen · Mar 4, 2021

I am currently evaluating Foratone MG Classic 131 Glossy. The paper is slow with a warm ivory tint. It tones very fast. KRST 1:10 changes the paper tone to a cooler color in 90s. I notice that a Zone 5 to 6 on Classic prints a bit brighter on Foma paper. The affect is almost like a projection which adds snap. Glossy is really glossy vs Ilford Classic.

I’m enlarging 135 on a Valoy 2 to factor of 5-5.3x. My aperture is f/4.5 and time is 18-34s. I have a jr. red safe light over the trays near the enlarger with a Kodak Bullet OC on the floor reflecting off a wall 5 ft from the trays. No fogging. Foma advises you can safety work with a wavelength of 610nm and higher. The corresponding color of safety illumination is orange. They advise the paper can be under safe lights longer than with common types of B&W papers.

The untoned print color is a yellow ivory undertone. Under incandescent light that tone disappears. The print tone cools off KRST.

Foma advertises the paper for retro portraits and that’s a good place to start. It does not seem to have as wide a range as Ilford Classic/Deluxe RC but it has a rich appearance in the low to mid tones. Middle grays come alive.

Lachlan Young · Mar 4, 2021

Plenty of people use Fomatone - especially for lith. It tones strongly almost on simply being shown a bottle of selenium - and you can get it to split tone. It's a little different from PWT overall, I particularly like the 132 almost-matte finish. Do note that Foma papers are slower to fix than Ilford.

Wayne · Mar 4, 2021

I'm heading up to the darkroom now. I bought 132. I probably won't like the tone in D-72 which is all I have at the moment but look forward to experimenting with getting more chocolate brown tones. I will probably forget to change my safelight. I only have red ones now but think I'll see what happens. I have an OC somewhere...

mshchem · Mar 4, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
Plenty of people use Fomatone - especially for lith. It tones strongly almost on simply being shown a bottle of selenium - and you can get it to split tone. It's a little different from PWT overall, I particularly like the 132 almost-matte finish. Do note that Foma papers are slower to fix than Ilford.

I also am a fan of the 132 surface. It's not matte. I still have frozen PWT and am fond of the stuff. The Fomatone is easier for me to work with. Fomatone is very responsive, to toners, as you say, Selenium, I had to dilute to 20:1 to manage. I tried the Kodak Blue (gold) toner and got amazing subdued blue. Foma had a few days where they discounted their products by 25% through Freestyle and B&H, I bought 3 100 sheet boxes of 8x10 and some 5x7 as well. I have found, ( unscientific guess) that the emulsion is not as well hardened as the Ilford papers. I use a acid hardening rapid fix. I don't overuse fixer, its so inexpensive.
The weird split toning and dramatic dry down of PWT hasn't occurred with my Fomatone, but I haven't left the Foma material in Selenium toner long enough to find out. I use Bromophen, develop for 2 minutes 68 - 70 F.
I hope there's enough business to keep Ilford and Foma healthy, both companies make great papers.

Richard Jepsen · Mar 4, 2021

Just got out of the DR were I printed the same neg on Foma 131 and ILWT. ILWT had a bit less contrast. I expected to see ILWT print highlights better. It was a very close call....the nod to recording more highlights goes to ILWT. The Foma paper is safe under a red safelight.

Wayne · Mar 5, 2021

I only got some initial testing done and then contacted printed the last few rolls of 120 I shot in my leaking Mamiya 6 folder. Too early to say much except that I didn't find the unmodified tone as hideous as I expected, and I can confirm no apparent problems from the red safelights. Oh, I didn't find it all that slow either, though I've yet to do an enlargement. I didn't do any quantitative comparisons though. My first couple of tests were way overexposed. I had to stop down a couple stops and use the low light setting at 20M in order to get my contacts in the ballpark.

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
Plenty of people use Fomatone - especially for lith. It tones strongly almost on simply being shown a bottle of selenium - and you can get it to split tone. It's a little different from PWT overall, I particularly like the 132 almost-matte finish. Do note that Foma papers are slower to fix than Ilford.

Watch out with Fomatone for lith! Foma changed the emulsion several years ago, and the new emulsion won't lith at all. After an outcry by the lith community they reintroduced the original emulsion as "Fomatone MG Classic". If you ever plan on lith processing with fresh paper, make sure you get the right one!

Lachlan Young · Mar 7, 2021

Rudeofus said:
Watch out with Fomatone for lith! Foma changed the emulsion several years ago, and the new emulsion won't lith at all. After an outcry by the lith community they reintroduced the original emulsion as "Fomatone MG Classic". If you ever plan on lith processing with fresh paper, make sure you get the right one!

Current production Fomatone MG Classic on FB definitely liths. From what has been hinted at by manufacturers, and the way that some have managed to get current Ilford papers to lith, I think a lot of 'lithability' has to do with the dye ballasting/ coating package assembly.

radiant · Mar 7, 2021

I asked for lith compability from Foma and they replied that FOMATONE MG Classic and new paper of RETROBROM liths well. I have some samples from Foma but haven't tried yet.

Richard Jepsen · Mar 7, 2021

I’m looking at 5x7 ILWT fiber prints made a few days ago. A day before I printed 5x7s on Foma 131 fiber. The Foma paper can be pressed inside a book and will lay flat. Ilford WT fiber has a bit more tendency to curl. Foma’s base support is heavier. If mounting inside an album that may be a consideration.

Richard Jepsen · Mar 7, 2021

While deciding what paper to use I compared warm-toned Foma 131 fiber to neutral Multigrade RC Deluxe. Print illumination conditions were at a desk inside, just opposite a NW facing window in noon daylight. I immediately noticed untoned Foma MG had a bit of green tint. Prints were developed in Illford PQ paper developer. I would need to selenium tone if mounting Foma MG prints onto a light cream album paper.

mshchem · Mar 7, 2021

I got my 3 100 sheet boxes from B&H today . FedEx delivered on Sunday. All 3 surfaces. 131,132, and 133. I'm happy

gijsbert · Mar 7, 2021

@mshchem I missed that 25% off, bummer, would love to try out that 133 velvet surface, let us know how they compare!

Recent fomatone 131 matte definitely works for lith

this is a not so great capture with a mobile phone plus a failed attempt at getting the tone as the print, the real tone is more peachy. And I keep on snatching the print too late! I think you need to get print at the first hint of the black you want, in the developer the contrast looks veiled (not sure how to describe it) but it clears out in the fixer and there is a lot more contrast than it seemed in the Moersch easy lith developer. It's fun, but it takes a lot of paper, at least for me! Right reference is the new deluxe rc paper from Ilford

Rudeofus · Mar 8, 2021

gijsbert said:
Recent fomatone 131 matte definitely works for lith

This is Fomatone MG, or Fomatone MG Classic? I spent three evenings in my dark room trying to get any kind of color from Fomatone MG, when I finally stumbled into an update message from Tim Rudman highlighting this issue.

PS: I have done some experiments with Ashley <3's' lith developer. Asnley <3 claims success with several otherwise not so lithy papers. I have so far only tried this with Fomatone MG Classic, and the results are definitely interesting.

radiant · Mar 8, 2021

gijsbert said:
this is a not so great capture with a mobile phone plus a failed attempt at getting the tone as the print, the real tone is more peachy. And I keep on snatching the print too late! I think you need to get print at the first hint of the black you want,

It is enough brilliant to make me a bit jealous! I think you snatched correctly. At least I like the dark tones and the sky has beautiful lith effect. Well done.

gijsbert · Mar 8, 2021

Rudeofus said:
This is Fomatone MG, or Fomatone MG Classic? I spent three evenings in my dark room trying to get any kind of color from Fomatone MG, when I finally stumbled into an update message from Tim Rudman highlighting this issue.

PS: I have done some experiments with Jordan Earls' lith developer. Jordan claims success with several otherwise not so lithy papers. I have so far only tried this with Fomatone MG Classic, and the results are definitely interesting.

Says "Fomatone MG Classic" on the envelope and it was 132 actually - matte surface. Emulsion number 070748 / 05 or 073148 / 02, bought in 2020.
I also tried Oriental WT from 3 or 4 years back, allegedly rebranded Fomatone, and that didn't lith with Moersch easy lith.
I've read some of Jordan Earl's posts, very interesting stuff but I'm still in my premixed phase

gijsbert · Mar 8, 2021

vedostuu said:
It is enough brilliant to make me a bit jealous! I think you snatched correctly. At least I like the dark tones and the sky has beautiful lith effect. Well done.

Thank you! It's a lengthy process but when it all comes together it's spectacular. I'm still amazed that all that colours comes out of b&w paper!
The high contrast doesn't work for everything so I've been adding significant preflash (postflash actually, not sure if it matters) to get more detail in the highlights.

mooseontheloose · Mar 9, 2021

gijsbert said:
@mshchem I missed that 25% off, bummer, would love to try out that 133 velvet surface, let us know how they compare!

Recent fomatone 131 matte definitely works for lith
this is a not so great capture with a mobile phone plus a failed attempt at getting the tone as the print, the real tone is more peachy. And I keep on snatching the print too late! I think you need to get print at the first hint of the black you want, in the developer the contrast looks veiled (not sure how to describe it) but it clears out in the fixer and there is a lot more contrast than it seemed in the Moersch easy lith developer. It's fun, but it takes a lot of paper, at least for me! Right reference is the new deluxe rc paper from Ilford

After years of doing lith printing, particularly on Fomatone papers, I'm so used to the veiled look in the developer, that I can see it even in normal B&W processing - the "fix up" occurs on every print I've ever done, it's just much more noticeable with lith prints (although to be honest, I'd probably never would have noticed it without having done lith first). FWIW, I think your print looks great, classic Fomatone, and probably both earlier and later pulls would have produced equally interesting results.

Fomatone MG

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