Fomapan 200 result

angah316 · Jun 21, 2023

Hello

Im newbie here. I hope this is a correct thread to be discuss and getting comment

I developed my film fomapan 200 , using ilford id11 and fixer . The developed timing was 6 minute, than drop out the chemical ID11 and rinse with plain water , drop out the water , and drop in fixer for 3 minute 30 second .

Im not sure this is good or not , some one said the grey area looks bad . Im not sure wether my process is wrong or what ?

Anyone can help me or guide me for better result ..

koraks · Jun 21, 2023

Hi @angah316 thanks for joining us and yes, it sure is fine to post here with questions you may have!

The print or scan looks like a very high contrast scene, and those are often challenging to get right. Problems we frequently run into with this kind of image is insufficient exposure so that the shadows end up being all black. Or on the other hand, if the shadows are exposed properly, the negative can turn out to have so much contrast that it is difficult to print or scan. In extreme cases, the highlights may even 'block up' in the negative, at which point they contain very little detail.

In this particular case, the issue is most likely insufficient exposure. The dark area on the left contains little detail, at least in the image shown here. It might help to post a photograph of the actual negative, held against a diffuse light, so that it is possible to see how much detail there is in the negative itself. This can help in providing you with further assistance.

Finally, keep in mind that whether a photograph is good or not, is primarily up to you to decide! In the end, it does not really matter what others think of it. You be your own judge

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 21, 2023

It seems overly contrasty for such a short time in the developer... What was the developer temperature? I'd shoot the film at 100 instead of ISO 200, and use ID-11 diluted 1+1. You'll have to experiment with time.

angah316 · Jun 21, 2023

Andrew O'Neill said:
It seems overly contrasty for such a short time in the developer... What was the developer temperature? I'd shoot the film at 100 instead of ISO 200, and use ID-11 diluted 1+1. You'll have to experiment with time.

Temperature of developer is room temperature . Yup i didnt heat it ..usually once it used, i will drop out the chemical into the bottle.

Hold on , do i need to heat up the developer to certain temperature?

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 21, 2023

angah316 said:
Temperature of developer is room temperature . Yup i didnt heat it ..usually once it used, i will drop out the chemical into the bottle.

Hold on , do i need to heat up the developer to certain temperature?

Temperature is important. Depending on the developer, I usually keep the temperature at 20C. If you use higher temperature, then the time must be reduced. Lower temperature, then time is increased... You say you used "room temperature", but what temperature is that?

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 21, 2023

...also how you agitate the film in the developer, can effect the contrast/look of the film.

tokam · Jun 21, 2023

Hi @angah316 You didn't say what dilution of the developer you used or what the developer temperature was. Foma 200 can build up contrast quite rapidly if overdeveloped.

I have had success using D-76, (Kodak equivalent of ID-11), diluted 1+1 for 5.5 minutes at 24 degrees C. (Summer water temps in Sydney are well over 20 C). I suspect that your local temps are over 20 C. This time based on 9 minutes at 20 C from the Massive Development Chart and adjusted down according to the charts from the Ilford web site.

The attached picture was taken late afternoon in the Australian summer, exposed at ISO 200 on a bright day. The shadows in your picture may need a bit more exposure and I think you may have overdeveloped the film. Need to know what temps and dilution of ID-11 you used.

Marcelo Paniagua · Jun 21, 2023

Andrew O'Neill said:
...also how you agitate the film in the developer, can effect the contrast/look of the film.

+1 on that. More agitation would usually yield more contrast, so reducing the agitation may reduce contrast. For some contrasty film I use (Aviphot) I use one invertion every minute, while other more standard films, normally 2-3 agitation every 30 sec.

Also, I think a good way to know if this is a development issue or a exposure issue is to look at other frames from the roll. Do all pictures look this contrasty? Or just this one?

Marcelo

pentaxuser · Jun 21, 2023

angah316 To a certain extent we should blame any instructions that you may have on film developing that simply say room temperature without stating what that means. As Andrew says it is 20 degrees C I can imagine that room temperature in Kiang may be something quite different to room temperature in a temperate climate such as the U.K.

So was the developer at 20 degrees C and if not what was your room temperature? Are you scanning the negative to make a positive print? If you are then the scanner's software may help to lower contrast.

As has been said it looks as if there isn't enough detail in the shadow area in the street scene so next time try increasing exposure by lowering the film speed on the film speed dial when taking outdoor scenes with deep shadows and bright highlights

The second shot of the workshop is not a high contrast scene and that looks much better but still the shadow areas don't have enough detail

Where did you find the time for ID11 at 1+1?

Thanks

pentaxuser

koraks · Jun 21, 2023

Andrew O'Neill said:
It seems overly contrasty for such a short time in the developer..

I'm not sure how much Fomapan 200 you've shot, so maybe I'm telling you something you already know. But Fomapan 200, other than e.g. 100 and especially 400, develops 'crazy fast'.

I also think that the apparently high contrast is more a matter of scene selection, exposure (favoring highlights at the expense of shadows) and post processing/presentation than inherent contrast in the negative. But this is one of the reasons why I proposed to have a look at the actual film, because it will tell us a little more.

MattKing · Jun 21, 2023

For clarity, you can deal with developing at a range of temperatures, provided that you adjust the developing time appropriately.
Between 18C and 24C you can usually get good results, although sometimes 24C results in times that are too short for consistent results.
You do need to measure the temperature reasonably accurately, so a decent thermometer is important.
Ilford has a chart to help you with this.
It is included in the datasheet that applies to all Ilford film developers, which can be found here: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1829/product/708/
It is on page 4 of that datasheet, and it looks like this:

It is advisable to make sure that the other solutions in the development chain are at or near the same temperature as the developer. That includes the wash.

One request though - can you share with us how your negatives look? Something like a digital photo of the negatives - including the edges of the film past the frame numbers and the spaces between the frames. It is best that the film be backlit by something like a blank computer screen or an out of focus window.

I ask this because sometimes crazy contrast like you show can actually be all or part a product of how you digitize the film. The negatives themselves tell us a lot more.

pentaxuser · Jun 21, 2023

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-co...tion-chart.pdf
The above is a table from Ilford if you find that easier to use

pentaxuser

relistan · Jun 22, 2023

I agree with everything that @koraks said above. For reference, if it helps, here is the kind of range you can get from Fomapan 200 in high contrast scenes (if that's what you want) by tuning exposure and development:

angah316 · Jun 22, 2023

tokam said:
Hi @angah316 You didn't say what dilution of the developer you used or what the developer temperature was. Foma 200 can build up contrast quite rapidly if overdeveloped.

I have had success using D-76, (Kodak equivalent of ID-11), diluted 1+1 for 5.5 minutes at 24 degrees C. (Summer water temps in Sydney are well over 20 C). I suspect that your local temps are over 20 C. This time based on 9 minutes at 20 C from the Massive Development Chart and adjusted down according to the charts from the Ilford web site.

The attached picture was taken late afternoon in the Australian summer, exposed at ISO 200 on a bright day. The shadows in your picture may need a bit more exposure and I think you may have overdeveloped the film. Need to know what temps and dilution of ID-11 you used.

View attachment 341933

Yesterday i checked, it was 32degrees .. (stock developer)

No wonder its look too contrast

juan · Jun 22, 2023

When I lived in Florida my tap water was never lower than 27C. I had to learn to reduce development time to compensate. If you can reduce temperatures of all of your solutions, that would be simpler. Some films have problems if they are developed at one temperature and stop bath and fixer are at significantly higher temperatures.

abruzzi · Jun 22, 2023

I pretty much always mix up my dev, then stick it in the freezer with a thermostat to get it down to 68F. Next week here will be 108F outside so I expect my "cold water" won't be all that cold.

lamerko · Jun 23, 2023

angah316 said:
Yesterday i checked, it was 32degrees .. (stock developer)

No wonder its look too contrast

You need to think of a way to lower the temperature. Fomapan is a bit of a strange film - maybe a mix of old and new technology, I don't know.
There are two important facts:
- the specified speed of the box as ISO 200 for many people does not meet their expectations. Shot at EI 200, this film looks slightly pushed.
- development times are significantly lower. It is important. Fomapan claims the following:

Creative has a nominal speed rating of ISO 200/24o, but due to its wide exposure latitude the film gives good results even when being overexposed by 1 EV (exposure value) (as ISO 100/21o) or underexposed by 2 EV (as ISO 800/30o) without any change in processing, i.e. without lengthening the development time or increasing the temperature of the developer used.

The lower development times give Fomapan reason to specify high ISO values, but it might be a good idea to shoot it as EI 100-125.
Your "room" temperature is too high - 32C, and at the same time you developed with ID-11 for 6 min. Fomapan says it should develop for 5-6 min at 20C or only 2:30 min at 30C. In your case, I would even expect a worse result than what you achieved. Obviously, there is no option to compensate the temperature with time, even at 30C the situation is unpleasant. You can dilute the developer, but it still won't be a solution. You just have to find a way to control the temperature and keep in mind the quirks of this film.

A lot of people don't like this movie, but actually their bad impressions are the result of not understanding the specifics. If you learn to shoot and process it properly, you would get good results. At a very good price.

koraks · Jun 23, 2023

lamerko said:
Fomapan claims the following:

Which is a claim I would honestly just ignore. There's no chance that this film will "do" 800 by any stretch of the imagination. It's a fine film in 35mm and sheet film formats - but it's not a magic item.

KitosLAB · Jun 23, 2023

angah316 said:
Hello

Im newbie here. I hope this is a correct thread to be discuss and getting comment
Anyone can help me or guide me for better result ..

First of all, I want to say that I like your composition shots. Simple moments and scenes, but they have everything and perspective and balanced details. YES the picture has high contrast. Based on experience, I dare to assume that the temperature of the solution was really high and the negative turned out to be too "dense". There are still glare, what camera did you shoot with?

Rolleiflexible · Jun 24, 2023

koraks said:
Which is a claim I would honestly just ignore. There's no chance that this film will "do" 800 by any stretch of the imagination. It's a fine film in 35mm and sheet film formats - but it's not a magic item.

I agree this film does not want to be pushed. Even at box speed, the negatives look thin. I shoot it at EI 100 and get nicely-balanced negatives. (FWIW I stand-process it in Rodinal, maybe 4ml of syrup into 450ml water, and an hour in the solution with a gentle agitation halfway through. I don't bother adjusting temperatures but I am in a mild climate -- 32C water might be a problem.)

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