Foma Velvet compared to Ilford MG ART 300

horacekenneth · Mar 15, 2020

Can anyone compare Foma's 'velvet' texture to Ilford's 'textured matte' on their MG Art 300? I love old textured silver papers and really want to like MG Art 300 but have always found it to be a little much (too much texture). How does Foma's velvet compare?

grainyvision · Mar 15, 2020

They're pretty similar in my experience. ART is more coarse and overall more textured, while Foma velvet is more fine and feels distinctly like rough leather in a way. The velvet also ends up looking more glossy and quite a bit like an RC pearl print. It's honestly my favorite FB finish because drying conditions don't matter so much and FB glossy when normally air dried is kind of flat to me

horacekenneth · Mar 17, 2020

thanks Earlz that sounds like the right direction for me from ART.

How flat is 'kind of flat'?

miha · Mar 17, 2020

What is Foma 'velvet'?

tezzasmall · Mar 17, 2020

miha said:
What is Foma 'velvet'?

The surface of a printing paper...

https://www.foma.cz/en/catalogue-fomaspeed-detail-275

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/what-is-foma-velvet-semi-matte.56398/

Terry S

miha · Mar 17, 2020

Thanks tezzasmall, but I still don't know what velvet is.133, 333 or something else?

horacekenneth · Mar 17, 2020

It's the texture on their 313 RC paper and their 133 FB paper

miha · Mar 17, 2020

Thanks. I have a pack of Fomatone 133 in my darkroom ready to be used. I did however took one sheet out the box just out of curiosity and the surface is leathery indeed. I Love Foma papers and miss their 542 original the most.

thefizz · Mar 17, 2020

You could also try Slavich Bromportrait Embossed which has a lovely slightly dimpled surface but it’s a graded paper.

horacekenneth · Mar 17, 2020

thefizz said:
You could also try Slavich Bromportrait Embossed which has a lovely slightly dimpled surface but it’s a graded paper.

That sounds nice, looked it up on freestyle they say it’s no longered manufactured

thefizz · Mar 18, 2020

horacekenneth said:
That sounds nice, looked it up on freestyle they say it’s no longered manufactured

The glossy finish is no longer manufactured but the embossed is still being made. Available here.

horacekenneth · Mar 18, 2020

Ahhh, thank you

R.Gould · Mar 18, 2020

thefizz said:
The glossy finish is no longer manufactured but the embossed is still being made. Available here.

According to the Foma website the Varient is madein glossy and semi matt, The leathery surface was stoppeda while ago, if anyone has used the sadly long gone Kentmere warmtone paper it was the same surface, and I believe that the base has been stopped the main stockiist and the importer of Foma over here Process Supplies, list the Varient 111 glossy and 112 matt only now The Velvet surface is their RC paper and similer to Lustre/Pearl type surfaces

horacekenneth · Mar 18, 2020

Thefizz was

R.Gould said:
According to the Foma website the Varient is madein glossy and semi matt

Thefizz was referring to a Slavich brand paper, not foma. What has your experience been with the Velvet textured RC paper from Foma?

thefizz · Mar 18, 2020

To clarify, Foma fibre papers:
Fomasbrom Variant 111 gloss, 112 matt.
Fomatome MG Classic 131 gloss, 132 matt, 133 velvet. These are warm tone.

R.Gould · Mar 18, 2020

horacekenneth said:
Thefizz was

Thefizz was referring to a Slavich brand paper, not foma. What has your experience been with the Velvet textured RC paper from Foma?

I have never used it, I was just quoteing from the Process supplies web site and from the Foma wedsite, for RC work I use Kentmere fine lustre, for FB I have used Adom MCC, Multigrade Classic and Art 300, whicj I love, it is a triple weight photo rag paper and the surface is very like the old Kentmere Art range which I used a lot untill it went the way of other great paper's,

R.Gould · Mar 18, 2020

thefizz said:
To clarify, Foma fibre papers:
Fomasbrom Variant 111 gloss, 112 matt.
Fomatome MG Classic 131 gloss, 132 matt, 133 velvet. These are warm tone.

Foma on their website describe thhir Fomatone MG Classic FB paper as Gloss semi matt and fine stipple, the only Foma papers I can find as Velvet are RC papers,I admit I have not used Fomatone fpr a while, but with the demise of MCC when my last 2 boxes are gone I am going to try the Varient 111 as a possible replacement,

thefizz · Mar 18, 2020

The fibre 133 paper is widely referred to as velvet but maybe not by Foma.
Varient 111 is close to MCC110 so worth giving a try.

removedacct3 · Mar 18, 2020

One of the things I noticed when printing on Foma 113 Velvet is that I need to use a higher grade than normal. Perhaps one full grade, or maybe even 1.5 grade, higher than normal.

When doing portraits I really like Foma MG Classic 132 and Ilford ART 300. Started printing on Fomabrom Variant 112 and Foma MG Classic 133 not so long ago and I am very pleased with my initial Fomabrom 112 results. Foma MG Classic 133 takes a little longer to get used to.

removedacct3 · Mar 21, 2020

To follow up my own reply ... today I printed a portrait and decide to do the same portrait on both papers. Printing on Ilford ART 300 I printed with a grade 3.5 and it gave me deep blacks and real smooth skin tones. For Foma Velvet 133 I maxed out at grade 5 and still did not get the blacks as deep as Ilford ART 300. Skin tone was comparable between the two papers.

horacekenneth · Mar 21, 2020

MrclSchprs said:
To follow up my own reply ... today I printed a portrait and decide to do the same portrait on both papers. Printing on Ilford ART 300 I printed with a grade 3.5 and it gave me deep blacks and real smooth skin tones. For Foma Velvet 133 I maxed out at grade 5 and still did not get the blacks as deep as Ilford ART 300. Skin tone was comparable between the two papers.

Thanks! Can I see?

Lachlan Young · Mar 22, 2020

MrclSchprs said:
To follow up my own reply ... today I printed a portrait and decide to do the same portrait on both papers. Printing on Ilford ART 300 I printed with a grade 3.5 and it gave me deep blacks and real smooth skin tones. For Foma Velvet 133 I maxed out at grade 5 and still did not get the blacks as deep as Ilford ART 300. Skin tone was comparable between the two papers.

The Fomatone emulsions have a narrower effective range of contrasts than Ilford's MG emulsions, but the components necessary to broaden the contrast range might stop it lithing in regular lith chemistry. It is a very beautiful paper, if you can fit inside its range.

grainyvision · Mar 22, 2020

In my experience Fomatone classic is a lot more responsive to developer types than other modern papers. You might try actually using a specific print developer designed for increasing contrast, though I imagine you'd lose quite a bit of the warmtone of the paper when doing that

R.Gould · Mar 22, 2020

With the Fomatone classic I have found, after trying most W/T developers that the one that syited the paperthe best was the Ilford/Harman warm tone , the contrast was good and the tone was very warm indeed, almost a light sepia tone straight out of the developer, lovely, but it does take a lot of getting used to, but when you are used to the slow speed and other quirks of the paper it is the best bar none warm tone paper around

removedacct3 · Mar 23, 2020

horacekenneth said:
Thanks! Can I see?

Yes, you can!

The same portrait printed on Ilford ART 300 grade 3.5 and on Foma MG Classic 133 grade 5. A print scan done on a Epson V700 at 600DPI, straight out of scanner, no adjustments. In all fairness, the difference between the real prints and their computer images is night and day. In real life the Foma print looks stunning, at least to my eyes, and the Ilford print is not as bad as it looks. Perhaps the Ilford print would have come out better when printed on grade 3 or even grade 2.5; this one is just a tad too contrasty for my taste.

Edit: I removed the links to the scanned images as they were unable to convey the unique look and feel of both papers; neither scan was flattering for Ilford or Foma.

Foma Velvet compared to Ilford MG ART 300

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